Guy buys hydrogen car but can't buy hydrogen

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Guy buys hydrogen car but can't buy hydrogen

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Uber Geek

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#2833431 16-Dec-2021 13:28

So the solutions is what I have postulated many times is that the private motor vehicle as a means of personal transport has had its day. Time to plan for greater mass public transport and alternative personal transport.

RobDickinson

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Uber Geek

#2833432 16-Dec-2021 13:30

If you are engaging in fantasy why cant we all ride unicorns to work?

MikeAqua

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#2833435 16-Dec-2021 13:37

RobDickinson:

MikeAqua:

The exhaust from hydrogen is water. What's the exhaust from a lithium battery fire?

oooh yes a fully balanced statement here lol

From any sensible risk management perspective both are relevant issues. Water emissions from a hydrogen vehicle is a certainty (unless it's condensed and captured), with low consequence in most situations.

A lithium battery fire can happen (I've seen one near Blenheim within the last ~12 months) and that vehicle burnt to the ground. This is a low probability with a potentially catastrophic consequence. On that basis it would be a critical risk.

Mike

RobDickinson

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Uber Geek

#2833437 16-Dec-2021 13:40

MikeAqua:

A lithium battery fire can happen (I've seen one near Blenheim within the last ~12 months) and that vehicle burnt to the ground. This is a low probability with a potentially catastrophic consequence. On that basis it would be a critical risk.

You mean that i3 Rex that had a petrol fire?

MikeB4

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#2833441 16-Dec-2021 13:46

RobDickinson:

If you are engaging in fantasy why cant we all ride unicorns to work?

Argumentum ad absurdum well done, have a cookie

MikeAqua

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Uber Geek

#2833443 16-Dec-2021 13:48

MikeB4:

So the solutions is what I have postulated many times is that the private motor vehicle as a means of personal transport has had its day. Time to plan for greater mass public transport and alternative personal transport.

If that's anything like Uber in NZ no thanks - always the clapped out Prius model with no headroom in the back.

Mike

MikeB4

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#2833448 16-Dec-2021 13:52

Many years ago when I was involved in the industry and sold CNG stations we heard the same protestations regarding the installation of CNG refuelling points. All the nonsense about those being dangerous were proven to be unfounded.

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MikeAqua

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Uber Geek

#2833450 16-Dec-2021 13:53

RobDickinson:

MikeAqua:

A lithium battery fire can happen (I've seen one near Blenheim within the last ~12 months) and that vehicle burnt to the ground. This is a low probability with a potentially catastrophic consequence. On that basis it would be a critical risk.

You mean that i3 Rex that had a petrol fire?

It may have started as a petrol fire but the battery still burned and it burned very, very, very hot. Did you see the fire? Did you see what was left afterwards?

BEVs can and do have battery fires. Low probability but potentially catastrophic consequences, so still a critical risk.

Mike

MikeB4

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#2833452 16-Dec-2021 13:55

MikeAqua:

If that's anything like Uber in NZ no thanks - always the clapped out Prius model with no headroom in the back.

Those old Prius models are garbage for taxis or Uber. As well as sod all headroom (I am 190cm) they cannot fit a wheel chair. I have lost count how many times one of those abominations turn up even after I have said i am using a chair.

MikeAqua

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Uber Geek

#2833454 16-Dec-2021 13:57

MikeB4:

Many years ago when I was involved in the industry and sold CNG stations we heard the same protestations regarding the installation of CNG refueling points. All the nonsense about those being dangerous were proven to be unfounded.

And hydrogen is lighter/smaller so dissipates faster than natural gas.

Mike

MikeAqua

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Uber Geek

#2833463 16-Dec-2021 14:09

MikeB4:

MikeAqua:

If that's anything like Uber in NZ no thanks - always the clapped out Prius model with no headroom in the back.

Those old Prius models are garbage for taxis or Uber. As well as sod all headroom (I am 190cm) they cannot fit a wheel chair. I have lost count how many times one of those abominations turn up even after I have said i am using a chair.

That's appalling.

When I've used basic Uber in Aussie a SUV or large sedan turns up in good repair, smelling nice with the AC already running. Why the difference between here and there?

Mike

Obraik

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Uber Geek

#2833554 16-Dec-2021 15:37

MikeAqua:

And hydrogen is lighter/smaller so dissipates faster than natural gas.

It's not the flammability of hydrogen that is of concern, it's the high pressure of the tanks. With a lithium battery fire you have some warning and can generally get away from it without injury. Hydrogen tanks are pressurised to 10,000psi and if it has a fault and explodes there's really no way to escape that, it's basically instant death

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MikeB4

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#2833560 16-Dec-2021 15:46

Hydrogen tank testing and safety.....

"To further ensure safety, these tanks undergo cycling tests in which they are pressurized and depressurized many more times than they would be during their lifetime on a vehicle. For example, advanced carbon-composite tanks have been cycled more than 500,000 times to maximum operating pressure without leaking, whereas a tank on a vehicle filled once a week for 20 years undergoes slightly more than 1,000 cycles. Tanks are exposed to pressures above normal to simulate fault management. The tanks are also dropped 6 feet when empty, shot with a rifle, burned, and exposed to acids, salts, and other road hazards to validate that they are safe even under severe or unusual conditions."

"In the unlikely case that an advanced composite tank leaks, it can be removed from service without incident. It is highly unlikely that these tanks will fail in a way that will directly endanger the occupants of a hydrogen-fueled vehicle. These tanks have remained intact in collisions and in vehicle fires, and, when tested after such events, have passed various pressure tests. (See Table 2). In case of vehicle fires or events in which fire from another vehicle may engulf the tank, the tank's pressure relief device is activated when the temperature of the tank exceeds a set point (typically 102°C/ ~216°F). When the pressure relief device is activated, the hydrogen gas in the tank is released in a safe manner. This safety procedure is validated through performance tests conducted in accordance with an existing standard (NGV2-2000)."

Obraik

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Uber Geek

#2833567 16-Dec-2021 16:11

It's highly unlikely that an EV will suffer a battery fire too. The point is, as your quote says it's unlikely to fail. That doesn't mean it won't and if it does, it's very unlikely you (and those surrounding your vehicle) will survive.

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MikeB4

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#2833572 16-Dec-2021 16:19

Obraik:

It's highly unlikely that an EV will suffer a battery fire too. The point is, as your quote says it's unlikely to fail. That doesn't mean it won't and if it does, it's very unlikely you (and those surrounding your vehicle) will survive.

Back when I was involved there was an accident where a CNG powered vehicle was tail ended by a truck. The rear of the Holden was crushed all the way to the B pillar, the CNG tank was intact. Vehicles with CNG and LPG were running around banging into each other for well over a decade and it was not Armageddon.

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