Diamonds in the road before pedestrian crossings

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Klipspringer

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Topic # 142671 20-Mar-2014 11:41

Not real diamonds LOL. The painted ones ...

So as I understand it, if a pedestrian is standing at the crossing waiting to cross the road and a driver has not yet reached the diamond in the road then the driver needs to stop.

If the driver has already gone past the diamond, and a pedestrian arrives at the crossing, then the pedestrian needs to wait for the car to pass before stepping out into the road.

But here in NZ it seems to be different. Pedestrians just walk and because its a pedestrian crossing they expect cars to stop, no matter where the car is. They will walk thinking that they have right of way.

IMO cars are not expected to stop for pedestrians who are walking to/approaching a crossing either, but it sure seems to look like its expected driving behavior to always stop. Whats the real meaning of these diamonds here in NZ, it seems they serve no purpose.

What are your thoughts?

PS: I never got my license in NZ, I just transferred it here so never actually "took the test" here. Therefore my assumptions are based on how I was taught to drive.

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Reply # 1009742 20-Mar-2014 11:48

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The Diamond merely indicates a Crossing is ahead

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-other-road-users/sharing-road-with-pedestrians.html

Mike
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Reply # 1009743 20-Mar-2014 11:51

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Whoever wants less trouble will be stopping.

It doesn't matter who has right of way, if I were pedestrian and I don't want to be maimed or have brain damage I will stop. If I were the driver and I saw them (sometimes people make mistakes or get distracted, god forbid) and I don't want a month long police investigation plus psychological trauma plus court time I will stop.

But that's me. Who knows what the law says though?

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Klipspringer

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Reply # 1009746 20-Mar-2014 11:56

KiwiNZ: The Diamond merely indicates a Crossing is ahead

In other countries it works how I described it above. And even when speaking to some drivers here in NZ they agree with my definition, others have never actually noticed the diamonds before.

MikeB4

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Reply # 1009755 20-Mar-2014 12:05

"When coming up to pedestrian crossings:

slow down and be ready to stop for any pedestrians stepping onto, or on, the crossing – this also includes people obviously waiting to use the crossing
if there is no raised traffic island in the middle of the crossing, stop and give way to pedestrians on any part of the crossing
if there is a raised traffic island in the middle of the crossing, stop and give way to pedestrians on your half of the road
wait until the pedestrian has crossed in front of you and is clear of your vehicle before you proceed"

Source= NZTA

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bigreddog

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Reply # 1009768 20-Mar-2014 12:10

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I'm with Klipspringer - thats how I was taught when i learned to drive (in NZ), interesting to see that it isn't actually in the road code.

Nothing worse than pedestrians that walk along the footpath and when the reach the crossing just turn abruptly and walk out in front of you without looking - do these people not drive themselves or are they just chronically stupid?

Bung

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Reply # 1009771 20-Mar-2014 12:14

The law applying to pedestrians is

"11.5Entering crossings

A pedestrian or a rider of a mobility device or wheeled recreational device must not suddenly enter a pedestrian crossing when an approaching vehicle is so close to the pedestrian crossing that the driver of the vehicle is unable to give way to the pedestrian or the driver or rider of the device." Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004

Note that currently cyclists aren't included although they are the worst at suddenly veering off the footpath onto the crossing.

The diamond isn't mentioned but the NZTA design for crossings places it either at least 50m from the crossing or safe stopping distance plus 5m so that should give any pedestrian who bothers to look some idea whether the car can stop.

That said it is quicker to give way than deal with the aftermath.

MikeB4

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Reply # 1009774 20-Mar-2014 12:15

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As detailed here they are just one of several warning devices used...

"As you drive towards a pedestrian crossing, you will see pedestrian crossing signs before the crossing and black and white poles at the crossing. The poles are mounted with fluorescent orange disks, or round yellow lights that flash at night. White diamonds are generally painted on the road before the crossing, and a white limit line shows you where to stop."

Source; NZTA

I have always taken the method of when approaching a crossing I slow down and be ready to brake.

Mike
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MikeB4

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Reply # 1009775 20-Mar-2014 12:16

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Bung: The law applying to pedestrians is

"11.5Entering crossings A pedestrian or a rider of a mobility device or wheeled recreational device must not suddenly enter a pedestrian crossing when an approaching vehicle is so close to the pedestrian crossing that the driver of the vehicle is unable to give way to the pedestrian or the driver or rider of the device." Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004

Note that currently cyclists aren't included although they are the worst at suddenly veering off the footpath onto the crossing.

The diamond isn't mentioned but the NZTA design for crossings places it either at least 50m from the crossing or safe stopping distance plus 5m so that should give any pedestrian who bothers to look some idea whether the car can stop.

That said it is quicker to give way than deal with the aftermath.

A cyclist should not be on the footpath.

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ubergeeknz

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Reply # 1009777 20-Mar-2014 12:19

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Forgetting about the rules for a moment let's think about being a decent human being and caring for the safety of others.

Be prepared for pedestrians to cross at no notice. If they do, try your best to not hit them. It's very simple really. Why does there need to be clearer rules about this? How many instances are there when a car has hit a pedestrian and the discussion has been "oh but who's fault was it, I was past the diamond?"

MikeB4

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Reply # 1009778 20-Mar-2014 12:20

ubergeeknz: Forgetting about the rules for a moment let's think about being a decent human being and caring for the safety of others.

Be prepared for pedestrians to cross at no notice. If they do, try your best to not hit them. It's very simple really. Why does there need to be clearer rules about this? How many instances are there when a car has hit a pedestrian and the discussion has been "oh but who's fault was it, I was past the diamond?"

Mike
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Journeyman

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Reply # 1009781 20-Mar-2014 12:23

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Klipspringer: But here in NZ it seems to be different. Pedestrians just walk and because its a pedestrian crossing they expect cars to stop, no matter where the car is. They will walk thinking that they have right of way.

As others have explained, we don't have the diamond rule, though we probably should. We use the rule of common sense... which is tricky given that it common sense is not very common. People seem to think that pedestrian crossings are like a magical force field to protect the stupid.

sbiddle

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Reply # 1009784 20-Mar-2014 12:26

NZ law is very weak compared to other countries.

In a nutshell however, you are required to stop for people who are on a crossing or those who are clearly in a position where they want to cross.

Dairyxox

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Reply # 1009788 20-Mar-2014 12:34

Ive found in China funnily enough drivers really watch out for pedestrians, they seem they will do nearly anything to not hit one (Mainly due to having severe punishment for hitting someone).

Over here in NZ I find motor vehicle drivers have a high likleyhood of 'buzzing' (driving quickly and close to) pedestrians that might accidentally approach their precious road. As if to punish them.

Huge difference in mindset.

Be prepared for pedestrians to cross at no notice. If they do, try your best to not hit them. It's very simple really.

totally agree with this.

Bung

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Reply # 1009791 20-Mar-2014 12:37

Many footpaths are shared spaces so the cyclist can legally ride on them. At present legally they aren't a pedestrian on a crossing unless they walk across. I believe there are moves to change this.

Decency is all well and good but can't beat the laws of physics.

In the car you are quite limited, on a bike it's easier to speak directly to people that cross without even turning their heads to look :D

jeffnz

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Reply # 1009813 20-Mar-2014 13:03

Bung:

Note that currently cyclists aren't included although they are the worst at suddenly veering off the footpath onto the crossing.

gross exaggeration here and know way you can backup this without surveying every incident not just the ones you see. Apart from that I agree with everything you put but not sure why you changed the topic to include cyclists.

As to the Diamonds, I to was taught that many years ago at primary school so it must have been changed and I'm guessing that, in part, to put the liability in the first instance onto the motorist if someone is hit. The problem with this is that some think they have an entitlement to just walk out regardless without thinking of the consequences.

I'm sure we can all post stories to back up our opinion but we generally only get one side or one case that stereotypes the rest.

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