Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections

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#1712480 29-Jan-2017 21:15

Dratsab:
This just gets funnier every minute: "Officials announce proposal that would establish California as separate nation"

It's funny because it can't and won't happen.

Dratsab

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#1712492 29-Jan-2017 21:23

MikeB4:
Dratsab:
This just gets funnier every minute: "Officials announce proposal that would establish California as separate nation"

It's funny because it can't and won't happen.

Meh, it's funny because people are so disillusioned they're actually trying.

Fred99

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#1712493 29-Jan-2017 21:24

MikeB4:
Dratsab:

This just gets funnier every minute: "Officials announce proposal that would establish California as separate nation"

It's funny because it can't and won't happen.

That's what was being said about the possibility of Trump being elected POTUS.

MikeB4

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#1712494 29-Jan-2017 21:28

The fourteenth amandment makes seceding a fantasy, Mr Trump being elected was always possible a constitutionally supported.

blakamin

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#1712498 29-Jan-2017 21:48

MikeB4: The fourteenth amandment makes seceding and fantasy,

And the 1st amendment says something about discriminating on religious grounds... Hows's that going in the last 24hours??

Fred99

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#1712499 29-Jan-2017 21:50

MikeB4: The fourteenth amandment makes seceding and fantasy, Mr Trump being elected was always possible a constitutionally supported.

Not correct.

Virginia, Rhode Island, and New York conditionally signed the US constitution preserving the right to secede.

Not California but:

The fourteenth amendment doesn't explicitly preclude secession, only by implicit interpretation, validity of the amendment is questioned as it was arguably only signed under duress by southern states under military occupation, and then the tenth amendment makes it clear that if it's not prohibited by the constitution, then it's allowed.

Never say never, and anyway it's probably not something that's be decided in courts of law. More how strong the mandate to secede would be, and how strongly government would be prepared to fight to prevent it by using force to impose their will.

The polls are on your side for now - only about <1/3 of Californians are in favour of secession, but strange things can happen. - as we're seeing unfold in front of our eyes.

MikeB4

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#1712500 29-Jan-2017 21:55

Fred99:
MikeB4: The fourteenth amandment makes seceding and fantasy, Mr Trump being elected was always possible a constitutionally supported.

Not correct.

Virginia, Rhode Island, and New York conditionally signed the US constitution preserving the right to secede.

Not California but:

The fourteenth amendment doesn't explicitly preclude secession, only by implicit interpretation, validity of the amendment is questioned as it was arguably only signed under duress by southern states under military occupation, and then the tenth amendment makes it clear that if it's not prohibited by the constitution, then it's allowed.

Never say never, and anyway it's probably not something that's be decided in courts of law. More how strong the mandate to secede would be, and how strongly government would be prepared to fight to prevent it by using force to impose their will.

The polls are on your side for now - only about <1/3 of Californians are in favour of secession, but strange things can happen. - as we're seeing unfold in front of our eyes.

It's never going to happen....

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

The only legal way would be the Federal Congress passing amending laws or constitutional changes to allow this. Congress will never do that.

Fred99

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#1712509 29-Jan-2017 22:10

blakamin:

MikeB4: The fourteenth amandment makes seceding and fantasy,

And the 1st amendment says something about discriminating on religious grounds... Hows's that going in the last 24hours??

A stay was granted against an executive order by the POTUS which may be very clear to any right-minded person was a breach of first amendment rights, but some things are being overblown:

It was a very minor partial win in a district court in a small battle - against an alt:right who are waging war.
The injunction was based on the premise that the individuals concerned would suffer unduly due to the "bad fortune of traveling while the ban went into effect".
First amendment rights never came into consideration.

It's great that it's riveted public attention on the issue, but the real fight hasn't even started.

gzt

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#1712511 29-Jan-2017 22:18

I see there are massive problems in US airports today. Scientists trying to get to thier universities, students, workers retuning from holiday, the list goes on. A perfectly valid visa is not enough.

freitasm

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#1712513 29-Jan-2017 22:21

I think you are understating the situation at airports.

DarthKermit

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#1712515 29-Jan-2017 22:29

I think Pink Floyd had it right all those years ago.

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

Fred99

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#1712516 29-Jan-2017 22:32

MikeB4:

It's never going to happen....

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

The only legal way would be the Federal Congress passing amending laws or constitutional changes to allow this. Congress will never do that.

Never say never as that does not specifically preclude secession.

Furthermore "The United States would never be a party to a lawsuit on the issue because secession, both de facto and de jure, is an extra-legal act of self-determination, and once the States have seceded from the Union, the Constitution is no longer in force in regard to the seceded political body."

International law - not US constitutional law - would then apply.

MikeB4

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#1712518 29-Jan-2017 22:37

No state is going to destroy itself by attempting to secede, never going to happen.

Fred99

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#1712519 29-Jan-2017 22:46

MikeB4: No state is going to destroy itself by attempting to secede, never going to happen.

The UK is about to secede from the EU, Finland seceded from Russia, Texas seceded from Mexico.

You keep saying it can't happen against evidence it can.

I agree that it probably won't happen - but not because it "can't".

Ultimately - to prevent secession - you need politicians and diplomats making concessions, or if playing the hard line then armies - certainly not constitutional lawyers.

freitasm

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#1712520 29-Jan-2017 22:53

UK was never a state and the European Union never a country. Finland was occupied. Different things.

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