Haha - saw a pile humourous names for Trump on FB the other day, but my favourite was Casino Mussolini ;-)

Trumpy's choice for Attorney General has sailed through.

Rikkitic:

MMP was a silly system pushed by the political parties, who didn't want to lose their power. STV would be a much fairer system, expect most people don't understand it.

 

Rikkitic:

 

MMP was a silly system pushed by the political parties, who didn't want to lose their power. STV would be a much fairer system, expect most people don't understand it.

 

You just illustrated my argument above ... I presume you're being ironic?

MikeB4:

Rikkitic:

 

MMP was a silly system pushed by the political parties, who didn't want to lose their power. STV would be a much fairer system, expect most people don't understand it.

 

MMP was the people's choice and I feel the best choice.

In the 1992 referendum 47% of eligible voters voted for something other than FPP (85% of 55% turnout).

But in 1993 the choice was resoundingly in favour of MMP.

I can't remember what I voted for to be honest.

joker97:

 

 

 

re jarledb: you don't know America. the non well-to-dos voted for trump. anyone who is not doing well will have voted for him. popular vote he also has a chance - if his campaign strategy was right. very good chance. why? they hate Hillary.

 

I don't think you know me well enough to know what I know about America. I know quite a few of Americas. Both people that voted for Trump and for Hillary.

One of the problems in America is that people that typically vote Republican get all their news from the propaganda channel of the Republican part (also known was Fox).

But even so, Hillary managed almost 3 million more votes than Trump.

I think there is a good chance that Hillary would have won if everything was equal. And by that I mean if the Republicans hadn't managed to stifle votes by imposing voter restrictions aimed at groups that typically vote Democratic, all to stop "voter fraud" that is basically non-existent.

jarledb:

 

joker97:

 

 

 

re jarledb: you don't know America. the non well-to-dos voted for trump. anyone who is not doing well will have voted for him. popular vote he also has a chance - if his campaign strategy was right. very good chance. why? they hate Hillary.

 

 

I don't think you know me well enough to know what I know about America. I know quite a few of Americas. Both people that voted for Trump and for Hillary.

 

One of the problems in America is that people that typically vote Republican get all their news from the propaganda channel of the Republican part (also known was Fox).

 

But even so, Hillary managed almost 3 million more votes than Trump.

 

I think there is a good chance that Hillary would have won if everything was equal. And by that I mean if the Republicans hadn't managed to stifle votes by imposing voter restrictions aimed at groups that typically vote Democratic, all to stop "voter fraud" that is basically non-existent.

 

That's strange, all Americans I know had decided they were voting for Trump regardless. Even all my relatives (non Americans) loved Trump. I felt like a minority.

Have to admit that I dont like MMP either. It seems to favor small parties and the result of an election is all about negotiation after the election..people have no real choice. FPP was purely democratic in my opinion based on your own geographical area.

Pumpedd:

 

Have to admit that I dont like MMP either. It seems to favor small parties and the result of an election is all about negotiation after the election..people have no real choice. FPP was purely democratic in my opinion based on your own geographical area.

 

But if there was a party that took 10% of the vote, under FPP it will not get any seats. If they get 10% of the popular vote, they should get 10% of the representation.

A downside of MMP is you can get a small party with little voter support, say 5%, that decides itself who will govern, aka a Kingmaker.

Yes, MMP favours small parties, FPP removes them from existence, at least as being in Government is concerned. FPP is a two party system

Pumpedd:

 

Have to admit that I dont like MMP either. It seems to favor small parties and the result of an election is all about negotiation after the election..people have no real choice. FPP was purely democratic in my opinion based on your own geographical area.

 

It's designed to [edit: slightly] favour small parties.  The allocation equations allocate a seat at a time and they prioritise allocation to small parties.  That's one of the reasosn it's hard for major party to get an actual majority.

Pumpedd:

 

Have to admit that I dont like MMP either. It seems to favor small parties and the result of an election is all about negotiation after the election..people have no real choice. FPP was purely democratic in my opinion based on your own geographical area.

 

There was nothing democratic about FPP. Look no further than the 1984 Labour government and imposition of Rogernomics on the nation without any forewarning or consultation.

dafman:

 

Pumpedd:

 

Have to admit that I dont like MMP either. It seems to favor small parties and the result of an election is all about negotiation after the election..people have no real choice. FPP was purely democratic in my opinion based on your own geographical area.

 

 

There was nothing democratic about FPP. Look no further than the 1984 Labour government and imposition of Rogernomics on the nation without any forewarning or consultation.

 

FPP is a democratic system, so is MMP.

Things that some people decry as undemocratic have happened under MMP as well.  For example, some people would say recent sales of govt assets and NZ signing the TPPA were undemocratic.

In fact people will say any major thing they disagree with is undemocratic.  Democracy does not require consultation, just voting. Some mob is elected, they get to make decisions.  That is democracy.

Consultative is actually not democratic because there is no voting. It imposes absolutely no limitations on the decision makers (other than a token effort at consultation).

joker97:

 

 

 

That's strange, all Americans I know had decided they were voting for Trump regardless. Even all my relatives (non Americans) loved Trump. I felt like a minority.

 

Its not that strange that groups of people share the same beliefs. Thats pretty common. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because the people you surround yourself with believe something, that everyone else does.

The fact that Hillary got a lot more votes than Trump should tell you that the notion that all Americans voted for Trump is false.

dafman:

 

Pumpedd:

 

Have to admit that I dont like MMP either. It seems to favor small parties and the result of an election is all about negotiation after the election..people have no real choice. FPP was purely democratic in my opinion based on your own geographical area.

 

 

There was nothing democratic about FPP. Look no further than the 1984 Labour government and imposition of Rogernomics on the nation without any forewarning or consultation.

 

This is really for a different thread. I was not a fan of the Roger Douglas era but to be fair the country was is real trouble and essentially bankrupt. The Government was a few weeks away from defaulting on the Public Service payroll and defaulting on debt it was a time when drastic action was needed.

MikeAqua:

 

dafman:

 

Pumpedd:

 

Have to admit that I dont like MMP either. It seems to favor small parties and the result of an election is all about negotiation after the election..people have no real choice. FPP was purely democratic in my opinion based on your own geographical area.

 

 

There was nothing democratic about FPP. Look no further than the 1984 Labour government and imposition of Rogernomics on the nation without any forewarning or consultation.

 

 

FPP is a democratic system, so is MMP.

 

Things that some people decry as undemocratic have happened under MMP as well.  For example, some people would say recent sales of govt assets and NZ signing the TPPA were undemocratic.

 

In fact people will say any major thing they disagree with is undemocratic.  Democracy does not require consultation, just voting. Some mob is elected, they get to make decisions.  That is democracy.

 

Consultative is actually not democratic because there is no voting. It imposes absolutely no limitations on the decision makers (other than a token effort at consultation).

 

Under MMP, the recent govt asset sales were limited to 49%.

Asset sales under FPP were 100%