J Adern, How will she affect the election, and is she a good leader?

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#1864817 13-Sep-2017 22:43

tdgeek:

Rikkitic:

Is it? I always thought they favoured the right. Hard to tell these days, I guess.

Chinese do favour the right. But what are immigrants? When I see fibre going down they seem mainly Filipinos

Immigration is good, I feel our population is too low. The issue is we need immigrants ti build houses, but they also need to live in houses

Indeed and the startling conclusion (we must have an expensive enquiry to validate this statement of the bleeding obvious...) is that we need to build more houses, faster.

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#1864938 14-Sep-2017 08:57

Ironic moment for today:

National releases campaign ad targeting Labour's (lack of) tax policy.

https://youtu.be/HoIV2TGX1aE

Ardern responds by stating:

Ardern said she was "calling them out . . . for campaigning on things that don't exist".

Heh.

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#1864980 14-Sep-2017 09:16

6FIEND:

Ironic moment for today:

National releases campaign ad targeting Labour's (lack of) tax policy.

https://youtu.be/HoIV2TGX1aE

Ardern responds by stating:

Ardern said she was "calling them out . . . for campaigning on things that don't exist".

Heh.

I actually think this hidden tax thing is way overrated. Does it include Income Tax and GST, no. Does it include many new taxes that are going to gouge all of our pay packets? No. Its a tax reform. Is the water tax going to grind this country to a halt?

Its pure sensationalism. But it broke their campaign, so its now a done deal

Its like the fiscal credibility crap that you see, thats rubbish also. There were a couple of articles, one about their 2017 policies, spending and tax figures, nothing to see there. And of past National and Labour Govts fiscal performance. Each had a dud, Muldoon and Douglas. Clarke paid down debt, which was a major help for the GFC that National ended up with. That was luck, it just happened the Labours conservative spending and desire to reduce debt happened to work well then. If a party spends more and built up debt thats no issue either if the benefit is there (infrastructure for example). Some priority differences, but the commentary is like Apple vs Android, Ford vs Holden, most of it is BS and misleading

End of the day its over, there is security knowing what to expect, but it would have been interesting to see them do a term

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#1865009 14-Sep-2017 09:59

tdgeek:

I actually think this hidden tax thing is way overrated. Does it include Income Tax and GST, no. Does it include many new taxes that are going to gouge all of our pay packets? No. Its a tax reform. Is the water tax going to grind this country to a halt?

Its pure sensationalism. But it broke their campaign, so its now a done deal

Its like the fiscal credibility crap that you see, thats rubbish also. There were a couple of articles, one about their 2017 policies, spending and tax figures, nothing to see there. And of past National and Labour Govts fiscal performance. Each had a dud, Muldoon and Douglas. Clarke paid down debt, which was a major help for the GFC that National ended up with. That was luck, it just happened the Labours conservative spending and desire to reduce debt happened to work well then. If a party spends more and built up debt thats no issue either if the benefit is there (infrastructure for example). Some priority differences, but the commentary is like Apple vs Android, Ford vs Holden, most of it is BS and misleading

End of the day its over, there is security knowing what to expect, but it would have been interesting to see them do a term

Slightly premature I think. Let's wait for tonight's poll at least, before we start piling the dirt on to the coffin, but it does feel like you're probably right.

I think Labour have tried to have it both ways. They tried to do a positive, detail-free, "change" campaign - a la National in 2008, but they weren't comfortable with hiding all the dead rats like National did. As a result they have come down the middle and said "we reserve the right to serve you a dead rat, but we can't tell you what kind until after the election".

I think it's a fairly responsible choice (CGT is horrendously complicated, and I think it's unrealistic to expect a finished plan from a party in opposition), and it's certainly more responsible than making a promise and then breaking it, but in terms of winning an election it's probably the worst of the three options. Not only do they have to defend the things they're likely to do (CGT), they have to defend all sorts of ridiculous things they won't do (raised income tax, death tax, porcupine tax). They're also unable to point to any of the popular changes that might come with tax reform, like a new tax-free income threshold, because the working group hasn't come up with them yet. It's one way traffic. I'm sure they wish they could change their position now, but to do so would be the final kiss of death.

Sadly I think NZ will never get a capital gains tax - something it badly, badly needs - without it being sprung on the public as an unvoted-for surprise.

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#1865017 14-Sep-2017 10:10

allio:

tdgeek:

I actually think this hidden tax thing is way overrated. Does it include Income Tax and GST, no. Does it include many new taxes that are going to gouge all of our pay packets? No. Its a tax reform. Is the water tax going to grind this country to a halt?

Its pure sensationalism. But it broke their campaign, so its now a done deal

Its like the fiscal credibility crap that you see, thats rubbish also. There were a couple of articles, one about their 2017 policies, spending and tax figures, nothing to see there. And of past National and Labour Govts fiscal performance. Each had a dud, Muldoon and Douglas. Clarke paid down debt, which was a major help for the GFC that National ended up with. That was luck, it just happened the Labours conservative spending and desire to reduce debt happened to work well then. If a party spends more and built up debt thats no issue either if the benefit is there (infrastructure for example). Some priority differences, but the commentary is like Apple vs Android, Ford vs Holden, most of it is BS and misleading

End of the day its over, there is security knowing what to expect, but it would have been interesting to see them do a term

Slightly premature I think. Let's wait for tonight's poll at least, before we start piling the dirt on to the coffin, but it does feel like you're probably right.

I think Labour tried to have it both ways. They tried to do a positive, detail-free, "change" campaign - a la National in 2008, but they weren't comfortable with hiding all the dead rats like National did. As a result they have come down the middle and said "we reserve the right to serve you a dead rat, but we can't tell you what kind until after the election".

I think it's a fairly responsible choice (CGT is horrendously complicated, and I think it's unrealistic to expect a finished plan from a party in opposition), and it's certainly more responsible than making a promise and then breaking it, but in terms of winning an election it's probably the worst of the three options. Not only do they have to defend the things they're likely to do (CGT), but defend all sorts of ridiculous things they won't do (income tax, death tax, porcupine tax). I'm sure they wish they could change their position now, but to do so would be the final kiss of death.

Sadly I think NZ will never get a capital gains tax - something it badly, badly needs - without it being sprung on the public as an unvoted-for surprise.

Yep, they should have been less vague, without being too detailed. Excluded are family home, family farm, family business, thats a better look. Give a guide on water tax , i.e expectations instead of letting others lie and and mislead with made up stories . Dirty politics won.

The pools have been wild. Thats really unusual here. Labour up 40-37 then down 39-40 (same day diff poll) then down 37-47 now. Id like to see Rangiora as that is the bellwether electorate

National have targeted a couple,of issues and made the huge even if they arent, so they deserve the win. Labour voters arent great at voting, these polls will tell them, bugger, why bother. Crazy stuff but true

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#1865063 14-Sep-2017 10:25

tdgeek:

I actually think this hidden tax thing is way overrated. Does it include Income Tax and GST, no. Does it include many new taxes that are going to gouge all of our pay packets? No. Its a tax reform. Is the water tax going to grind this country to a halt?

Its pure sensationalism.

I disagree that it's overrated or sensationalism. Labour are forecasting taking an additional $16,964m per year in tax revenue by the end of their first term. (Yes, that's almost 17 Billion dollars extra tax that we will need to pay every year under Labour (once they have completed their programme)

That's an enormous (22%) increase. It's not unreasonable to ask who will be asked to pay it, and how it might effect the profitability of businesses and solvency of kiwi families.

allio:

Sadly I think NZ will never get a capital gains tax - something it badly, badly needs - without it being sprung on the public as an unvoted-for surprise.

Would you like to share your thoughts on why you believe NZ needs a capital gains tax? It is to increase tax revenue? To close taxation loopholes? To constrain the property market? To be "more fair"?

(EDITS: Image upload issues.)

allio

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#1865064 14-Sep-2017 10:26

Well my call of half an hour ago was exactly wrong - Labour have now categorically ruled out any (not already announced) new taxes in the first term.

6FIEND:

Would you like to share your thoughts on why you believe NZ needs a capital gains tax? It is to increase tax revenue? To close taxation loopholes? To constrain the property market? To be "more fair"?

You've already answered the question for me!

Put simply - our tax system incentivizes buying houses rather than investing in productive enterprises. That's bad.

6FIEND:

Labour are forecasting taking an additional $16,964m per year in tax revenue by the end of their first term. (Yes, that's almost 17 Billion dollars extra tax that we will need to pay every year under Labour (once they have completed their programme)

You know tax revenue rises with time even if you don't change anything, right? The PREFU forecasts annual tax revenue of $86b in 2020, compared with $70b last year. Oh dear - almost 16 billion dollars extra tax that we will need to pay every year under National! :)

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#1865066 14-Sep-2017 10:27

Labour won't implement any tax changes until after the 2020 election, finance spokesman Grant Robertson has announced.

The party has faced weeks of attacks from National regarding its tax plans.

Interesting. Bit late, but should they communicate that effectively to the masses, it might help. Admit a mistake, that asking that much trust was too much to ask for a new Govt. Another twist and turn

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#1865070 14-Sep-2017 10:29

allio:

Well my call of half an hour ago was exactly wrong - Labour have now categorically ruled out any (not already announced) new taxes in the first term.

Wow, way to stick to your "beliefs" Labour.

So they believe these taxation policies are critical to NZ, but since they won't get elected with them in place, they have compromised their values to take power. How will they fund the miracles they plan on performing to solve the serious issues they see in NZ now?

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#1865071 14-Sep-2017 10:33

tdgeek:

Labour won't implement any tax changes until after the 2020 election, finance spokesman Grant Robertson has announced.

The party has faced weeks of attacks from National regarding its tax plans.

So then how do they plan to fund all of their proposed policies? it just creates more questions.

Edit: Labour are cancelling the already implemented April 2018 tax cuts. That smells like a tax change to me?

allio

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#1865072 14-Sep-2017 10:33

networkn:

Wow, way to stick to your "beliefs" Labour.

So they believe these taxation policies are critical to NZ, but since they won't get elected with them in place, they have compromised their values to take power. How will they fund the miracles they plan on performing to solve the serious issues they see in NZ now?

There really is no pleasing some people

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#1865073 14-Sep-2017 10:33

networkn:

How will they fund the miracles they plan on performing to solve the serious issues they see in NZ now?

Is it too soon to enquire about a fiscal hole again? Labour's own forecasts are building in $17bn of additional tax revenue - Joyce may have understated things ;-)

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#1865076 14-Sep-2017 10:36

networkn:

allio:

Well my call of half an hour ago was exactly wrong - Labour have now categorically ruled out any (not already announced) new taxes in the first term.

Wow, way to stick to your "beliefs" Labour.

So they believe these taxation policies are critical to NZ, but since they won't get elected with them in place, they have compromised their values to take power. How will they fund the miracles they plan on performing to solve the serious issues they see in NZ now?

Its not a wow. Some of the lies that National have been using is a wow. Its obvious that Labour asked for too much trust in a new Govt with new leadership, so they compromised. Compromise is not a bad thing. What miracles? More sensationalism. This is Apple Android stuff, it should be serious

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#1865078 14-Sep-2017 10:37

allio:

Well my call of half an hour ago was exactly wrong - Labour have now categorically ruled out any (not already announced) new taxes in the first term.

6FIEND:

Would you like to share your thoughts on why you believe NZ needs a capital gains tax? It is to increase tax revenue? To close taxation loopholes? To constrain the property market? To be "more fair"?

You've already answered the question for me!

Put simply - our tax system incentivizes buying houses rather than investing in productive enterprises. That's bad.

Yet Labour wants a house for everyone, and one of the other Labour supporters in this thread (Sorry it might have been @gulfa but I can't find it) believes it's the only reason to live.

How can you support a party that fundamentally wants to contribute to the issue you believe is causing so many issues in NZ.

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#1865080 14-Sep-2017 10:39

tdgeek:

This is Apple Android stuff, it should be serious

I agree it should be, But its irresponsible of Jacinda to propose running a country, without giving people any economic certainty.

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