Swtiching from Orcon UFB to Telecom UFB

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Swtiching from Orcon UFB to Telecom UFB

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#868011 29-Jul-2013 18:16

sbiddle:
deadlyllama:
Surely you can run dial-up modems over G.711 VoIP?

In a perfect world? Yes.

I worked on a project where we successfully ran analogue modems over less than perfect VoIP over ten years ago. Main learning from that was -- don't buy FastComm routers (do they still exist?) even if their VoIP gear is cheaper than Cisco's :P

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#868022 29-Jul-2013 18:48

Something like a dialup modem quite simply isn't going to work over a less than perfect VoIP connection, there is way too much that will break it. It only takes minor packet loss or jitter to really mess things up.

You have to remember that ulaw/alaw have been the norm in the TDM T1/E1 world since the 70's and most of the word's voice traffic is carried across TDM links.

Factor in a VoIP connection using lower quality equipment and it's not a case of a service not working, it's the fact it can't be guaranteed. An alarm may work 99% of the time but that's nowhere near good enough.

aaront

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#885149 27-Aug-2013 10:00

plambrechtsen:
Ragnor:
Dairusire:
If you want a VoIP option from telecom why not just use 2Talk? They provide a damn good service...super cheap to

Basically you can't get Fibre from Telecom if you don't have a copper line currently. Also you can't change from another UFB on another ISP to Telecom Fibre (even if you have a copper line) as they don't have a process in place for handling it yet.

Not 100% sure of that, would love to find someone who was knocked back if they still had the copper pair coming into their house and couldn't switch to Telecom, as I believe it is a supported operation and have the contacts internally to figure out what is not happening if the order fails.

I just recently enquired about switching from my Orcon Fibre connection to Telecom after going over my monthly usage & receiving a bill for an extra $250. I discovered the hard way that with Orcon, firstly you have to manually go online & setup your own usage notifications they don't automatically send an email out when you exceed you monthly limit and secondly they charge a whopping $2 per GB once you go over, this wasn't stated anywhere on the pages about their plans or in the Terms and Conditions it was hidden in the Support - FAQ section on their website.

I am pretty sure my copper lines are still there although I think they go cut just by where they enter the house when they were digging the trench so lay the fibre so I would have to get it re-connected again. The issue I had was that they told me I would have to switch back to an ADSL connect for about a week while the fibre was changed over. I run a business from home and rely on the fibre connection now so I couldn't manage running on a ADSL connection again for a week while they make he switch over happen.

cbrpilot

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#885164 27-Aug-2013 10:27

I believe that Chorus have now released a new process for switching between ISPs. Recommend you give Telecom 126 a call, and enquire on how to get switched over. I'd be surprised if you have to go back to copper!

Any issues, PM me here and I'll see what I can do.

My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

aaront

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#885271 27-Aug-2013 14:05

cbrpilot: I believe that Chorus have now released a new process for switching between ISPs. Recommend you give Telecom 126 a call, and enquire on how to get switched over. I'd be surprised if you have to go back to copper!

Any issues, PM me here and I'll see what I can do.

Thanks. I just phoned them and spoke to someone on the helpdesk who, after checking with the fibre team, just got back to me regarding the process for changing over. Apparently they do need to reconnect the copper line (apparently it is not guaranteed that Chorus will do this as they are refusing to reconnect copper lines in some areas) and then set me up with a ADSL connection. Once that is in place then I need to cancel me current fibre connection with Orcon and they then put an upgrade order in to upgrade the ADSL connection to fibre which would take about a week meaning during that time I would have to run on the ADSL connection as my Orcon connection would be cancelled.

One thing that does baffle me a bit is the insistence of them reconnecting the copper line to run voice even through I keep telling them that I don't need any voice services as we use 2Talk for all our VoIP. I can understand this if I wanted to use Telecom for both the ISP & voice provider while they don't have their VoIP solution in place yet but I don't.

plambrechtsen

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#885275 27-Aug-2013 14:15

aaront:
cbrpilot: I believe that Chorus have now released a new process for switching between ISPs. Recommend you give Telecom 126 a call, and enquire on how to get switched over. I'd be surprised if you have to go back to copper!

Any issues, PM me here and I'll see what I can do.

Thanks. I just phoned them and spoke to someone on the helpdesk who, after checking with the fibre team, just got back to me regarding the process for changing over. Apparently they do need to reconnect the copper line (apparently it is not guaranteed that Chorus will do this as they are refusing to reconnect copper lines in some areas) and then set me up with a ADSL connection. Once that is in place then I need to cancel me current fibre connection with Orcon and they then put an upgrade order in to upgrade the ADSL connection to fibre which would take about a week meaning during that time I would have to run on the ADSL connection as my Orcon connection would be cancelled.

One thing that does baffle me a bit is the insistence of them reconnecting the copper line to run voice even through I keep telling them that I don't need any voice services as we use 2Talk for all our VoIP. I can understand this if I wanted to use Telecom for both the ISP & voice provider while they don't have their VoIP solution in place yet but I don't.

Unfortunately we don't bundle a naked service so all services need a phone line, and currently our phone line needs a copper to deliver the PSTN. So that is why having a working copper pair into your house is needed. We are working on a voice solution over Fibre, but that is some way away.

aaront

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#885305 27-Aug-2013 14:40

plambrechtsen:
aaront:
cbrpilot: I believe that Chorus have now released a new process for switching between ISPs. Recommend you give Telecom 126 a call, and enquire on how to get switched over. I'd be surprised if you have to go back to copper!

Any issues, PM me here and I'll see what I can do.

Thanks. I just phoned them and spoke to someone on the helpdesk who, after checking with the fibre team, just got back to me regarding the process for changing over. Apparently they do need to reconnect the copper line (apparently it is not guaranteed that Chorus will do this as they are refusing to reconnect copper lines in some areas) and then set me up with a ADSL connection. Once that is in place then I need to cancel me current fibre connection with Orcon and they then put an upgrade order in to upgrade the ADSL connection to fibre which would take about a week meaning during that time I would have to run on the ADSL connection as my Orcon connection would be cancelled.

One thing that does baffle me a bit is the insistence of them reconnecting the copper line to run voice even through I keep telling them that I don't need any voice services as we use 2Talk for all our VoIP. I can understand this if I wanted to use Telecom for both the ISP & voice provider while they don't have their VoIP solution in place yet but I don't.

Unfortunately we don't bundle a naked service so all services need a phone line, and currently our phone line needs a copper to deliver the PSTN. So that is why having a working copper pair into your house is needed. We are working on a voice solution over Fibre, but that is some way away.

I guess I can understand that and am not about to get into a debate about how long it has/will take Telecom to have a VoIP solution. The main thing that I want is just a smooth transition of my fibre connection without having to go back to ADSL for a week. I can live with having the copper line connection for voice which I won't actually be using since there isn't an additional charge for this on top of the fibre plan that I want to sign up on.

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timmmay

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#885308 27-Aug-2013 14:43

aaront: I guess I can understand that and am not about to get into a debate about how long it has/will take Telecom to have a VoIP solution. The main thing that I want is just a smooth transition of my fibre connection without having to go back to ADSL for a week. I can live with having the copper line connection for voice which I won't actually be using since there isn't an additional charge for this on top of the fibre plan that I want to sign up on.

Even if they agree to do it, do you really think everything will go perfectly smoothly with no service interruption and no downtime? The network is so new most people can't even access it, you're on the bleeding edge and you're probably going to find rough edges when you do things that aren't totally routine.

cbrpilot

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#885324 27-Aug-2013 14:47

aaront:

Thanks. I just phoned them and spoke to someone on the helpdesk who, after checking with the fibre team, just got back to me regarding the process for changing over. Apparently they do need to reconnect the copper line (apparently it is not guaranteed that Chorus will do this as they are refusing to reconnect copper lines in some areas) and then set me up with a ADSL connection. Once that is in place then I need to cancel me current fibre connection with Orcon and they then put an upgrade order in to upgrade the ADSL connection to fibre which would take about a week meaning during that time I would have to run on the ADSL connection as my Orcon connection would be cancelled.

Ok, I have the skinny now. That is the old process. The new process is in the process of being rolled out.
Please PM me your details and I will have someone call you to run through the new process and get you switched over.

My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

aaront

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#885326 27-Aug-2013 14:50

timmmay:
aaront: I guess I can understand that and am not about to get into a debate about how long it has/will take Telecom to have a VoIP solution. The main thing that I want is just a smooth transition of my fibre connection without having to go back to ADSL for a week. I can live with having the copper line connection for voice which I won't actually be using since there isn't an additional charge for this on top of the fibre plan that I want to sign up on.

Even if they agree to do it, do you really think everything will go perfectly smoothly with no service interruption and no downtime? The network is so new most people can't even access it, you're on the bleeding edge and you're probably going to find rough edges when you do things that aren't totally routine.

I don't expect it to go through without any downtime, I can live with it being down for a few hours or even the day but can't run what I need to for my business over a ADSL connection for a week.
I already know about being on the bleeding edge of this new network, I already have major issues getting the fibre installed in the first place which ended up taking a couple of month to get done as it ended up requiring council consent to dig a trench along the front edge of our property to run the fibre cable over to our driveway.

aaront

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#885331 27-Aug-2013 14:54

cbrpilot:
aaront:

Thanks. I just phoned them and spoke to someone on the helpdesk who, after checking with the fibre team, just got back to me regarding the process for changing over. Apparently they do need to reconnect the copper line (apparently it is not guaranteed that Chorus will do this as they are refusing to reconnect copper lines in some areas) and then set me up with a ADSL connection. Once that is in place then I need to cancel me current fibre connection with Orcon and they then put an upgrade order in to upgrade the ADSL connection to fibre which would take about a week meaning during that time I would have to run on the ADSL connection as my Orcon connection would be cancelled.

Ok, I have the skinny now. That is the old process. The new process is in the process of being rolled out.
Please PM me your details and I will have someone call you to run through the new process and get you switched over.

Done.

timmmay

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#885348 27-Aug-2013 15:00

Curious what you do that can't be done on ADSL but requires fibre? Not having a go, just curious.

jimbob79

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#885349 27-Aug-2013 15:05

Correct me if I am wrong (and I probably am wrong so don't be a hater). But I thought from looking at photos supplied by other members on geekzone that the fibre connection was a hybrid of glass fibre and good old twisted pair copper.

The TP continues in from ETP and is connected to the ONT's phone ports 1&2. This was a fundamental reason for backward compatibility and independent to the fibre.

Hypothetical Situation: If I had UFB installed at my home and the traditional copper was removed. Then 8 months later I sold my house and an elderly couple moved in. They can't have a telephone service from Telecom for which they have been a customer for decades? Is this right?

If this is not correct what does TP copper do???
What are the Phone ports on the OTN if they can't be used for a traditional telephone/modem/fax etc.??

Dairusire

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#885350 27-Aug-2013 15:06

timmmay: Curious what you do that can't be done on ADSL but requires fibre? Not having a go, just curious.

Considering he has a business from home, he may have data back-ups for customers, hosted servers, and not to mention the HD pronz.

cbrpilot

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#885354 27-Aug-2013 15:19

jimbob79: Correct me if I am wrong (and I probably am wrong so don't be a hater). But I thought from looking at photos supplied by other members on geekzone that the fibre connection was a hybrid of glass fibre and good old twisted pair copper.

The TP continues in from ETP and is connected to the ONT's phone ports 1&2. This was a fundamental reason for backward compatibility and independent to the fibre.

Hypothetical Situation: If I had UFB installed at my home and the traditional copper was removed. Then 8 months later I sold my house and an elderly couple moved in. They can't have a telephone service from Telecom for which they have been a customer for decades? Is this right?

If this is not correct what does TP copper do???
What are the Phone ports on the OTN if they can't be used for a traditional telephone/modem/fax etc.??

If I had more hours in the day I'd draw you a picture, but here's how it works.

Before you have Fibre, there will be a piece of copper coming from the street which terminates at a box called an ETP (external termination point) - usually on the outside wall of your house. This in turn will be connected to the daisy chain of copper and jackpoints in your house.

When Chorus install Fibre, they install a new fibre ETP - which will usually sit beside, or a short distance from the copper ETP. From the the Fibre ETP, they run a hybrid cable (copper + fibre) to the ONT. The Fibre plugs into the Fibre port, and the copper plugs (usually be a patch cable) into the ATA port in the ONT. The other end of that piece of copper sits in the Fibre ETP.

If you're with Telecom for Fibre presently, it sits there (at the Fibre ETP) unconnected to anything.

If you're with another provider, then the link between the copper lead in and the copper internal wiring is broken, and the side connecting to your internal wiring is connected into the copper cable inside the Fibre ETP, thereby connecting your internal house wiring to the ATA port on the ONT.

Does that make sense?

So the question is therefore about what happens to the copper lead in. Most of the time it's just left there in the ground, and can be connected back to your internal wiring at a later date. However, sometimes the lead is removed for various reasons, in which case if someone wanted to have a copper phone service, the lead in would have to be reinstated.

My views are my own, and may not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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