Telecom to announce 850MHZ WCDMA

Forums › Spark New Zealand (including Skinny and BigPipe) › Telecom to announce 850MHZ WCDMA

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676 posts

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#167972 30-Sep-2008 12:40

The only call that counts is the first one posted here on geekzone, and I haven't seen a post yet; Here's the one for NZComms
http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=85&TopicId=21051

I was lucky :)

I is a kollege stoodent. Bee nice.

langi27

675 posts

Ultimate Geek

#168333 1-Oct-2008 14:44

I'm surprised this didn't get posted sooner

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/4709701a28.html

Interesting comments around the propsed Alcatel-Lucent equipment. Looks like someone from Ericsson has been given some bad news.

bbman

646 posts

Ultimate Geek

#168356 1-Oct-2008 15:39

Does anyone know if the inbound roaming ability is out side of Auck etc and if its on 850mhz GSM and 2100mhz WCDMA?

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bleater

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#168386 1-Oct-2008 16:16

I can't comment on the WCDMA part, but the GSM is GSM 850 (AFAICT) and I'm in Chch.
Re: ability to make a call. I am able to connect to the network, but a few seconds after connecting each time, I get a "No service" message. So perhaps Telecom doesn't have a roaming agreement with T-Mobile Germany yet. I can't comment on other carriers, but it would be interesting to hear if anyone can get service on an Aussie provider SIM.

bbman

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Ultimate Geek

#168402 1-Oct-2008 17:23

I get the same results, the network is there but not connectable, this is the test state and that signal may or may not disappear depending on the network annoucement due any time soon i hope.
2100mhz coverage in CHCH is getting better.
On another note the local MP's have been getting calls about a new Telecom site at Parklands. The new site, long over due looks great sitting there all shiney and new but it seems the know it alls and uneducated are at it again in CHCH.. stuff em i want good coverage at home and i dont want my phone operating at full power near my head because they don't want the dangerous site there!

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bbman

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#168551 2-Oct-2008 10:01

it would seem nearly all CHCH sites are running GSM850 now with many of the coverted sites also running 2100mhz WCDMA as well. Telecom may still persue the 850mhz GSM / WCDMA option after all..

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langi27

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#168595 2-Oct-2008 12:12

Did anyone watch the webcast of the Annual Meeting held this morning? I beleive they were suppose to annouce weather or not they were going to run with WCDMA850.......anyone?

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#168611 2-Oct-2008 13:02

langi27: Did anyone watch the webcast of the Annual Meeting held this morning? I beleive they were suppose to annouce weather or not they were going to run with WCDMA850.......anyone?

Still no announcement.

It is a rather significant change in the business model - GSM was going to be a good source of inbound revenue for Telecom. Without that the whole business case changes completely - unlike Vodafone, Telecom have a bunch of very unhappy shareholders who don't want to spend $$ on capex.

richms

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#168619 2-Oct-2008 13:28

They have unhappy shareholders that bought when telecom was horribly overvalued before now, anyone buying at the current price wouldnt have those same concerns since they haven't seen most of their "investment" dissappear ;)

Anyway, why support an old standard when the umts850 have proven itself in aussie as a great network (other then a few cases) - most people nowdays that would be roaming will have at least a 2100 capable phone, so thats the cities where they will use it covered fine as it is with vodafone now, and the rural areas are not really that much of a worry for roaming IMO.

The only roamers with crap old gsm only handsets are those that leave nz and get the loaners from telecom to take overseas ;)

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PenultimateHop

637 posts

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#168657 2-Oct-2008 16:35

sbiddle: It is a rather significant change in the business model - GSM was going to be a good source of inbound revenue for Telecom. Without that the whole business case changes completely - unlike Vodafone, Telecom have a bunch of very unhappy shareholders who don't want to spend $$ on capex.

I would be interested in hearing more about why you think that inbound GSM roaming is significant to the business case. I am not sure that it makes up any particularly large amounts of revenue for the "foreign" operator (the home operator, yes, absolutely).

As others have said, there's enough 3G handsets out there that it is not likely to make a huge impact - and remember that TNZ has a monopoly on the rather large worldwide CDMA customerbase for inbound roaming!

sbiddle

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#168681 2-Oct-2008 19:02

PenultimateHop: I would be interested in hearing more about why you think that inbound GSM roaming is significant to the business case. I am not sure that it makes up any particularly large amounts of revenue for the "foreign" operator (the home operator, yes, absolutely).

Vodafone's inbound roaming revenue figures are not publically disclosed but believed to be somewhere in the region of $150 - $200 million per year (with suspicions that the true value is towards the high end of this). Telecom being able to capture 50% of this would represent a very nice little earner on the side.

Inbound roaming revenue on CDMA is minimal and would also be minimal with a 3G only network since there are only limited numbers of 850 3G handsets.

bbman

646 posts

Ultimate Geek

#168682 2-Oct-2008 19:04

some thing tells me that the decision is only around the corner they are running out of time.
If they are launching a pilot in November i would have have to wonder on what system, must be GSM with roaming onto Vodafone some how?

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coffeebaron

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#168686 2-Oct-2008 20:15

sbiddle: Inbound roaming revenue on CDMA is minimal and would also be minimal with a 3G only network since there are only limited numbers of 850 3G handsets.

The inbound revenue on 3G would still be reasonable for Telecom in the main centres (where there 2100 is deployed). Main centres is where the lion share of any inbound revenue would come in. As for 850 3G, this has a head start on 900 3G, so Telecom would be at advantage their too.

In the short term, yes they will lose out on a good chunk of inbound revenue by going 3G only, but within a couple of years, I think this will no longer be significant.

For argument sake; lets say Telecom could nab $100M share of inbound revenue over the next 2 years by going dual 2G/3G, but it costs an extra $200M to build the 2G part of the network. That would be $100M down.

Now obviously those are just made up numbers, but my point is 2G is coming to end of life. 3G is a very significant part of Vodafone's network now, and that's been largely 2100Mhz.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10535299

I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers don't actually stack up for Telecom to build 2G.

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bbman

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#168690 2-Oct-2008 20:41

coffeebaron:
sbiddle: Inbound roaming revenue on CDMA is minimal and would also be minimal with a 3G only network since there are only limited numbers of 850 3G handsets.

The inbound revenue on 3G would still be reasonable for Telecom in the main centres (where there 2100 is deployed). Main centres is where the lion share of any inbound revenue would come in. As for 850 3G, this has a head start on 900 3G, so Telecom would be at advantage their too.

In the short term, yes they will lose out on a good chunk of inbound revenue by going 3G only, but within a couple of years, I think this will no longer be significant.

For argument sake; lets say Telecom could nab $100M share of inbound revenue over the next 2 years by going dual 2G/3G, but it costs an extra $200M to build the 2G part of the network. That would be $100M down.

Now obviously those are just made up numbers, but my point is 2G is coming to end of life. 3G is a very significant part of Vodafone's network now, and that's been largely 2100Mhz.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10535299

I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers don't actually stack up for Telecom to build 2G.

i would agree but the only thing that makes no sense is the GSM network is being rolled out and more and more sites are being turned on.
I figure that if they want to earn some money whilst 3g is being rolled out, they keep the GSM network live, make money from inbound roaming giving them time to get the 3g network ready. When they launch they can deactivate the GSM network or retain a little while longer whilst 3g takes off. when the spectrum issues start to occur they then quit it.
I have heard they want to spend another $200mil so may be the indicates they may keep both. I cant see why else they would still be activating sites on GSM unless they are prepairing them for WCDMA cards and when ready GSM will disappear and 2100 and 850 wcdma will start rolling...

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PenultimateHop

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#168692 2-Oct-2008 21:03

sbiddle:
PenultimateHop: I would be interested in hearing more about why you think that inbound GSM roaming is significant to the business case. I am not sure that it makes up any particularly large amounts of revenue for the "foreign" operator (the home operator, yes, absolutely).

Vodafone's inbound roaming revenue figures are not publically disclosed but believed to be somewhere in the region of $150 - $200 million per year (with suspicions that the true value is towards the high end of this). Telecom being able to capture 50% of this would represent a very nice little earner on the side.

Can you explain how you came to the $150-200mm a year figure? It seems extremely high to me - VFNZ's stated revenue is around $1500mm, which means inbound roaming would be contributing 10-13% of that! Telecom NZ (admittedly a much smaller roaming destination) has $57mm or so attributed to mobile that is non ARPU contributable (e.g. handset sales and inbound roaming).

I just don't see that New Zealand attracts such significant numbers of inbound roamers who would contribute enough to the foreign network (in this case VFNZ) to make up $200mm a year in revenue alone. Sure, there are people who roam pretty hardcore (myself included), but we're the exception rather than the norm.

EDIT: NZ had 2.46 million inbound tourists in 2007, which would mean VFNZ received $81 in revenue for each and every one of them to get $200mm in inbound roaming revenue. I am still skeptical!

sbiddle: Inbound roaming revenue on CDMA is minimal and would also be minimal with a 3G only network since there are only limited numbers of 850 3G handsets.

The US CDMA installed base is pretty big, and they do roam quite extensively. I know a few American coworkers who are surprised to get service in NZ but not in Australia.

To the second part of your statement, I'm really not sure I agree at all. If TNZ has a 3G 850 and 3G 2100 network, they will be accessible to the majority of the roaming market. If you look at it, the typical profile of a valuable inbound roamer, it is that of a business traveller, who generally replace their cellphone at least every 24 months, and usually every 12 months. This means their devices are going to be at a minimum UMTS2100 capable, and most likely UMTS850 capable as well. The smaller numbers of prepaid accounts on Nokia 1100s are unlikely to contribute significant revenue when they roam, if they roam.

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