Geektastic:

 

You can imagine the Greens imploding...

 

Now, if we could only harness that energy....

shk292:

 

Ditto the proposed tidal generation scheme in the mouth of the Kaipara is opposed by various environmental and cultural groups.

 

I suspect the cultural issues could be overcome by profit-sharing.

shk292:

 

joker97:

 

Why do we need to build hydro dams when rip currents try to kill people every day in the surf .. can't we harness/use rip currents?

 

 

I'm not an expert but I think it has to do with energy density and reliability.  Using tidal stream at a harbour mouth or certain other places like the Cook Strait ensures you get reliable, useful amounts of power generated.  Rips wouldn't do this

 

Rips are basically a smaller-scale example of tidal... there's a reservoir of water beyond a sand bar which flows in/out through a relatively narrow channel in response to tides. The problem is that the sandbar and channel move around. Not to mention inadvertently slicing swimmers and surfies up in the turbines.

What would be ironic is if we all act on climate change predictions and our actions coincide with unpredictable natural events that exert cooling pressure on the atmosphere.

In a system as complex and delicately balanced as the climate over correction is a feasible possibility.

shk292:

Geektastic:

Of course, even if they invent pocket fusion reactors, we won't get them because we'd have to give up our (somewhat pointless) nuclear free laws. You can imagine the Greens imploding as they try to rationalise the fact that having the reactors will help their climate concerns on the one hand and break their sainted no nuclear rule on the other hand. Would be fun to watch, actually.

You see a version of that already - the best renewable power we could have is more hydro, but you can't build more lakes because it would flood the only habitat of a specfic type of snail etc, etc.  Ditto the proposed tidal generation scheme in the mouth of the Kaipara is opposed by various environmental and cultural groups.

I agree. We have sun, wind, and some are next to running water. All I see when I look outside form upstairs are a couple of roofs with solar panels on them. There has to be huge for home owners to have solar, wind and if your back onto a stream, water power. Small, yes, but a lot of smalls add up. Talked to someone the other night, has solar PV, no batteries. I assume thats a good startup cost saving, suits her as home often in daytime. Lots of options, surely

frankv:

 

shk292:

 

Ditto the proposed tidal generation scheme in the mouth of the Kaipara is opposed by various environmental and cultural groups.

 

 

I suspect the cultural issues could be overcome by profit-sharing.

 

 

 

We probably ought to move past allowing "cultural groups" to get in the way of progress....

MikeB4:

 

Geektastic:

 

jpoc:

 

Aredwood:

 

...

 

About the only thing that could ever provide enough cheap energy to replace fossil fuels - Nuclear Fusion. So better hope that practical nuclear fusion gets perfected soon.

 

...

 

Agreed.

 

I put actual money behind that concept and invested in Lockheed-Martin. Let's hope that their compact high-beta fusion project plays out according to the projected timescales.

 

The managers there are putting big money - shareholder funds - my money - behind the concept. They seem to be confident.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, even if they invent pocket fusion reactors, we won't get them because we'd have to give up our (somewhat pointless) nuclear free laws. You can imagine the Greens imploding as they try to rationalise the fact that having the reactors will help their climate concerns on the one hand and break their sainted no nuclear rule on the other hand. Would be fun to watch, actually.

 

 

 

 

Our anti nuke laws are not pointless they are enlightened

 

Sure....you keep telling yourself that and it might become true.

Geektastic:

 

frankv:

 

shk292:

 

Ditto the proposed tidal generation scheme in the mouth of the Kaipara is opposed by various environmental and cultural groups.

 

 

I suspect the cultural issues could be overcome by profit-sharing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We probably ought to move past allowing "cultural groups" to get in the way of progress....

 

Yup, damned cultured humans get in the way of true progress all the time...

Now if only we could get the greenies to stop opposing wind farms when they are proposed for their "back yard". Or anywhere that allows them to imagine visual pollution thats worse than their apocalyptic greenhouse gas wisdom. Hmmm...

Fred99:

 

Geektastic:

 

frankv:

 

shk292:

 

Ditto the proposed tidal generation scheme in the mouth of the Kaipara is opposed by various environmental and cultural groups.

 

 

I suspect the cultural issues could be overcome by profit-sharing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We probably ought to move past allowing "cultural groups" to get in the way of progress....

 

 

 

 

Yup, damned cultured humans get in the way of true progress all the time...

 

Being cultured and being a "cultural group" in this context are highly unlikely to be the same thing. One enjoys Handel's Messiah and the other usually wants to use some flakey argument about how they used to live 150 years ago to prevent society doing something useful today.

Geektastic:

 

Fred99:

 

Geektastic:

 

frankv:

 

shk292:

 

Ditto the proposed tidal generation scheme in the mouth of the Kaipara is opposed by various environmental and cultural groups.

 

 

I suspect the cultural issues could be overcome by profit-sharing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We probably ought to move past allowing "cultural groups" to get in the way of progress....

 

 

 

 

Yup, damned cultured humans get in the way of true progress all the time...

 

 

 

 

Being cultured and being a "cultural group" in this context are highly unlikely to be the same thing. One enjoys Handel's Messiah and the other usually wants to use some flakey argument about how they used to live 150 years ago to prevent society doing something useful today.

 

Smacks of cultural snobbery to me, placing highest value on a musical ditty composed to worship the invisible man in the sky.  But anyway...

 

 

Crest Energy, the company behind the 200-megawatt Kaipara plan, which would have powered 250,000 homes, has put the project on hold. Founding director Anthony Hopkins, who has since sold all but a "minuscule" number of his shares in the company to Todd Energy, says numerous factors conspired to sink the project - at least for the foreseeable future.

 

Chief among them is the uncertainty hanging over the electricity market courtesy of the Tiwai Point aluminium smelter. If the smelter eventually shuts down - it's immediate future has been secured by a new supply contract and $30 million Government handout - the market will be swamped with electricity. With national electricity demand growing at a typical two per cent a year, it would take up to seven years for consumers to soak up the unused smelter supply.

 

Other unknowns, Hopkins says, are the long-term impact of the Government's partial privatisation of generators Mighty River Power, Meridian Energy and Genesis Energy, and the possibility that a change of government could see Labour and the Greens creating a single wholesale electricity buying body.

 

Adding insult to injury is the relatively sudden diversion of investment from renewables into the likes of shale oil and gas made available by fracking, which has turned the US into a net energy exporter. "World carbon markets and world energy markets have been turned on their heads by fracking," says Hopkins, who spent more than three years getting resource consent for the Kaipara project.

 

Yes - labour/greens do get a mention there, but the main saboteur of the proposed scheme seems to have been "the market" itself.  

webwat:

 

Now if only we could get the greenies to stop opposing wind farms when they are proposed for their "back yard". Or anywhere that allows them to imagine visual pollution thats worse than their apocalyptic greenhouse gas wisdom. Hmmm...

 

This^^^

My understanding is that the green party also opposed the project aqua hydro scheme. If it had been built we would have had an extra 520MW of hydro generation capacity. Which to put in perspective is more than all the remaining coal fired generation in NZ.

If construction had gone ahead - it would most likely have been built by now. Then we wouldn't have the situation like what happened today - Where wholesale power prices were really expensive as we had to use diesel generation to meet electricity demand. Bet a few people were also using this diesel generated power to charge their electric cars.

Geektastic:

frankv:

shk292:

Ditto the proposed tidal generation scheme in the mouth of the Kaipara is opposed by various environmental and cultural groups.

I suspect the cultural issues could be overcome by profit-sharing.

 

 

We probably ought to move past allowing "cultural groups" to get in the way of progress....

Geektastic:

 

Being cultured and being a "cultural group" in this context are highly unlikely to be the same thing. One enjoys Handel's Messiah and the other usually wants to use some flakey argument about how they used to live 150 years ago to prevent society doing something useful today.

 

So in some way harping back to European culture of 1740 is better than harping back to Maori culture of 1866?

I suggest closing down the Concert Program and Symphony Orchestra and Army/Air Force/Navy/Police brass bands and pipe bands and NZ Ballet and anything to do with Shakespearean theatre and give the money to RocketLabs.