Climate Change: Sh*t is getting real....and fast.

Forums › Off topic › Climate Change: Sh*t is getting real....and fast.

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MikeB4

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#1617175 25-Aug-2016 08:55

Geektastic:

Sure....you keep telling yourself that and it might become true.

So, are you saying it would be more enlightened for a geologically unstable country who's main source of income is primary industry and tourism to have Nuclear Power Plants and to store Nuclear waste etc?

Fred99

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#1617196 25-Aug-2016 09:57

Is the Green Party going to get behind to promote new technology capable of completely transforming the NZ dairy industry?

to use up to 98% less water, 91% less land, 84% less greenhouse gas emissions, and 65% less energy than typical industrial dairy production (source)

Oh - and the meat industry:

Geektastic

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#1617243 25-Aug-2016 11:00

MikeB4:

Geektastic:

Sure....you keep telling yourself that and it might become true.

So, are you saying it would be more enlightened for a geologically unstable country who's main source of income is primary industry and tourism to have Nuclear Power Plants and to store Nuclear waste etc?

No. I am saying that it can be done - especially if you can get fusion, as the waste would be significantly less and can be transported elsewhere for storage if need be. It's foolish to close off things based on what seemed like a super political idea at the time but which may or may not have relevance today. Technology advances etc.

The more foolish aspect of the law is to prevent even a vessel powered by nuclear reactors from visiting NZ. If someone wanted to sail a submerged nuclear sub into Wellington harbour and out again, they are in reality free to do so since we have no means of knowing that they were even there unless they tell us, much less the means to stop them other than asking nicely.

Geektastic

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#1617247 25-Aug-2016 11:03

frankv:

Geektastic:

Being cultured and being a "cultural group" in this context are highly unlikely to be the same thing. One enjoys Handel's Messiah and the other usually wants to use some flakey argument about how they used to live 150 years ago to prevent society doing something useful today.

So in some way harping back to European culture of 1740 is better than harping back to Maori culture of 1866?

I suggest closing down the Concert Program and Symphony Orchestra and Army/Air Force/Navy/Police brass bands and pipe bands and NZ Ballet and anything to do with Shakespearean theatre and give the money to RocketLabs.

No complaints from me. Go ahead.

MikeB4

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#1617251 25-Aug-2016 11:07

Geektastic:

MikeB4:

Geektastic:

Sure....you keep telling yourself that and it might become true.

So, are you saying it would be more enlightened for a geologically unstable country who's main source of income is primary industry and tourism to have Nuclear Power Plants and to store Nuclear waste etc?

No. I am saying that it can be done - especially if you can get fusion, as the waste would be significantly less and can be transported elsewhere for storage if need be. It's foolish to close off things based on what seemed like a super political idea at the time but which may or may not have relevance today. Technology advances etc.

The more foolish aspect of the law is to prevent even a vessel powered by nuclear reactors from visiting NZ. If someone wanted to sail a submerged nuclear sub into Wellington harbour and out again, they are in reality free to do so since we have no means of knowing that they were even there unless they tell us, much less the means to stop them other than asking nicely.

Given how shallow most of Wellington Habour is it would be detected.

A nuclear powered ship can have and accident the same as any reactor thus wrecking our economy for decades, the risk is not worth. As for nuclear waste where do you propose we send it? to some poor pacific island? The World already has enough idiot nations doing that, New Zealand does not need join it.

There are alternatives to joining the nuclear idiocy.

frankv

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#1617295 25-Aug-2016 12:20

Fred99:

Is the Green Party going to get behind to promote new technology capable of completely transforming the NZ dairy industry?

to use up to 98% less water, 91% less land, 84% less greenhouse gas emissions, and 65% less energy than typical industrial dairy production (source)

That's not going to transform the NZ dairy industry... it will kill it stone dead.

Why would you bother to transport milk powder from NZ if you can make the stuff yourself in a brewery?

MikeAqua

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#1617369 25-Aug-2016 13:52

I think its' fair to say that there is high degree of overlap between sympathy for sustainability objectives and opposition to new technologies that would contribute to attainment of those. Observations of that kind ff behaviour have given me the impression that the green lobby is simply anti-business (with the exception of shortlist of business activities they approve of).

Example of developments that would contribute in some way to widely espoused sustainability objectives but have been publicly opposed by the green lobby, including in most cases the Green party: -

Gamma irradiation of food and beverages- reduced spoilage, spread of pests and food borne illnesses.

BioTech - selected opportunities for more sustainable and safer food production.

Hydro dams - low carbon energy.

Wind farms - ditto.

Barn raised cattle - cattle voluntarily use shelter and barns reduce nutrient, sediment and microbial run off from cattle farms and enables all effluent be captured. Meanwhile dairy goats are farmed in barns and cut and carry fed grass and no-one bats an eyelid.

Shellfish farms - low carbon, low input, healthy (iron, omega 3) animal protein.

Mike

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gzt

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#1631359 15-Sep-2016 22:00

Xkcd does climate change:

"When people say 'the climate has changed before,' these are the kinds of changes they're talking about."

frankv

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#1631443 16-Sep-2016 07:10

That seems clear enough.

One point though... if the edge of the ice at 14000BC was at NY, and at 8500BC the ice sheet still extended to the Canadian border, then surely the land bridge from Asia to the Americas was always underneath a solid ice sheet. So when humans went from Asia to America they would have had to travel for hundreds (thousands?) of miles across nothing but ice? Which doesn't seem like a very probable scenario.

rhy7s

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#1632302 17-Sep-2016 18:55

frankv:

That seems clear enough.

One point though... if the edge of the ice at 14000BC was at NY, and at 8500BC the ice sheet still extended to the Canadian border, then surely the land bridge from Asia to the Americas was always underneath a solid ice sheet. So when humans went from Asia to America they would have had to travel for hundreds (thousands?) of miles across nothing but ice? Which doesn't seem like a very probable scenario.

Did you see http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v537/n7618/full/nature19085.html ?

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