Mars (and beyond) radiation hazard

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tdgeek

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#1650377 13-Oct-2016 13:33

Fred99:

tdgeek:

As I said, go there, visit there, explorers live there for a period due to the distance, all good. Discover all these great things and learn about Mars. But forget ever relocating humans to live there, there is no point at all.

That's a statement about philosophy - not science. There was no "point" to colonising New Zealand, yet here we are.

I think its more science. If Mars was closer enough to Earth's environment, living there is just an extension of living in another suburb, another city, another country. I'm ok with that. Mars isn't, and serves no useful purpose to us, but it does serve a discovery purpose. Thats also not useful, but it is part of our human psyche, to learn.

Fred99

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#1650380 13-Oct-2016 13:36

tdgeek:

Give me some reasons why we should establish a permanent population on Mars. The only reason I can foresee is to insure us, if the Earth was hit by an asteroid, and not just a Yucatan one.

Well, presumably from Musk (and others) perspective, there's money in it - something which has been a great motivator for much of humanity over the past few thousand years.

frankv

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#1650387 13-Oct-2016 13:47

tdgeek:

But at the end of the day its interesting to visit Mars, but I cannot for the life of me understand why we want to live there. the cost, the risks, the zero benefits, its very bizarre.

I'm sure those waving farewell to the Mayflower said the same.

But only a few centuries later, the USA is on the brink of becoming great again.

frankv

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#1650390 13-Oct-2016 13:56

Fred99:

Well, presumably from Musk (and others) perspective, there's money in it - something which has been a great motivator for much of humanity over the past few thousand years.

I'm not so sure... whilst Musk will look for opportunities to make money, I don't think it's his sole motivation. More like, he has so much money that he can play interesting, high risk/high reward games.

Maybe there's some money to be made by contracting to NASA and suchlike, but I don't see Mars settlement as a moneymaker inside Musk's lifetime.

Rikkitic

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#1650449 13-Oct-2016 14:32

I think it is impossible to make realistic predictions from the perspective of today’s knowledge. Looking at the past does not offer precise indicators of the future, but it does provide useful insights. In the early days of sailing, there were comparable health hazards, such as scurvy, that at first must have seemed almost insurmountable until understanding of the condition and its causes improved. Yet this and other real hazards, as well as fear of the unknown, did not prevent explorers from setting out.

Exploration and expansion, though usually motivated by hope of material gain, seem to be almost essential elements of the human condition. Even without the prospect of profit, or a threat to flee from, humanity has a restless urge to ever move into the unknown. It may take longer than some currently think, but I believe Mars and other bodies will ultimately be colonised, simply because they can be. No further inducement is needed.

If organic humans are not up to the job, inorganic ones may be. There are many potential future directions of human evolution. We may be able to create superhumans through genetic modifications specifically aimed at increasing resistance to radiation and other optimisations desirable for a space-faring people. We may be supplanted by superior robots, or we may learn to transfer our intelligence to more resilient artificial beings. Or we may come up with something not yet dreamed of. To say there is no reason to live on other worlds is to say there is no future.

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tdgeek

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#1650460 13-Oct-2016 14:41

@Rikkitic and @frankv

Colonising another country and colonising Mars are so far apart its not funny. Yes, discovery is what we do, moving from one country to another is exploration and colonisation, because we can. But Mars offers us nothing to colonise. Nothing.

Re Musk, yes I agree, for him its something cool to do, because he can. If I were him my goal would be to make the globe as self supporting, renewable energy wise as is technically possible. While there are those in that space, its not very important to Govts to embrace that

SepticSceptic

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#1650551 13-Oct-2016 16:31

tdgeek:

@Rikkitic and @frankv

Colonising another country and colonising Mars are so far apart its not funny. Yes, discovery is what we do, moving from one country to another is exploration and colonisation, because we can. But Mars offers us nothing to colonise. Nothing.

Re Musk, yes I agree, for him its something cool to do, because he can. If I were him my goal would be to make the globe as self supporting, renewable energy wise as is technically possible. While there are those in that space, its not very important to Govts to embrace that

At the moment, Mars may seem to offer nothing. But so did many other places on Earth initially, until some kind of permanent settlement was created.

We dont know what lies a few meters below Mars crust, because currently we cannot get down that far to investigate.

Is there a slurpee lifeform ? Bacteria ? Perhaps even bugs ?

New minerals ?

Vast underground caverns with mega-litres of water, a kilometer or two below the surface. ? I dont think there has been any significant geophysical tests taken ? ( Mars InSight mission which has Geophysical instruents is due for launch next year)

'Cause we can :-)

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Fred99

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#1650588 13-Oct-2016 17:32

SepticSceptic:

At the moment, Mars may seem to offer nothing. But so did many other places on Earth initially, until some kind of permanent settlement was created.

We dont know what lies a few meters below Mars crust, because currently we cannot get down that far to investigate.

Is there a slurpee lifeform ? Bacteria ? Perhaps even bugs ?

New minerals ?

Vast underground caverns with mega-litres of water, a kilometer or two below the surface. ? I dont think there has been any significant geophysical tests taken ? ( Mars InSight mission which has Geophysical instruents is due for launch next year)

'Cause we can :-)

If that all turns out to be wild fantasy (likely IMO), there's always hope the explorer pioneers can revive the trend from the '70s - for people to buy pet rocks.

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