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Topic # 199031 1-Aug-2016 16:58
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This study is very bad news: http://www.nature.com/articles/srep29901

 

Of course the sample size was very small, but they've been able to replicate vascular degeneration in mice by exposing them to radiation.

 

With the Apollo mission, time spent outside of the earth's magnetosphere was typically 8 days or so, a trip to mars might take 8 months, plus the same to get back.  There's no magnetosphere on Mars, and no protection on the surface from the very sparse atmosphere. Shielding a spacecraft is a problem, then the problem of shielding once you got there.  You'd actually have to be quite deep underground to be safe from spallation / showers.  


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  Reply # 1602385 1-Aug-2016 17:09
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So it looks like creating a magnetosphere of some kind - at least locally - is an important thing to do. 





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  Reply # 1602407 1-Aug-2016 18:07
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I haven't immersed myself in any of this but I do recall reading something about experimental science to reduce human susceptibility to such radiation, possibly through gene therapy or drugs or other techniques. Something like this might set human exploration back a few years but I would be willing to bet that ways around it can be found.

 

 





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  Reply # 1602408 1-Aug-2016 18:08
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Linuxluver:

 

So it looks like creating a magnetosphere of some kind - at least locally - is an important thing to do. 

 

 

 

 

Water is relatively good for absorbing the radiation.

 

They have to take a lot of water for human space travel.

 

The walls could be lined with it.


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  Reply # 1602410 1-Aug-2016 18:15
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Does this mean that there can't actually be any little green men from Mars?


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  Reply # 1602414 1-Aug-2016 18:23
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They live in the tunnels

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  Reply # 1602427 1-Aug-2016 18:35
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DarthKermit:

 

Does this mean that there can't actually be any little green men from Mars?

 

 

Probably have to be something more like this... 

 


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  Reply # 1602455 1-Aug-2016 19:35
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Fred99:

This study is very bad news: http://www.nature.com/articles/srep29901



In practice it will not be an issue. NASA has already initiated examination of the issue. For example:


The winners of the radiation challenge's first round are:

1st place ($5,000): George Hitt, assistant professor of physics and nuclear engineering at Khalifa University, United Arab Emirates, for proposing a reusable shield that could be placed in an orbit between Earth and Mars.

2nd Place ($3,000): Ian Gallon, retired researcher in electromagnetics of Bridport, England. He provided mathematical calculations for an active radiation mitigation system.

3rd Place ($2,000): Olivier Loido, freelance engineer of Toulouse, France. He proposed a launch configuration and a magnet array deployment.

4th Place ($1,000 each): Markus Novak, recent graduate from Ohio State University of Dublin, Ohio, who found safe areas for travel after performing particle trajectory simulations. Also, Mikhail Petrichenkov of Russia, who described how operations could work using a NASA storm shelter



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  Reply # 1602625 2-Aug-2016 00:17
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It is a huge issue - it's ridiculous to say it won't be.  There are people suggesting that manned mission to Mars could happen in the 2030s, yet there are only wild untested ideas to mitigate the radiation hazard - and as that paper suggests, poor understanding of the hazard.

 

I'm a bit sceptical of those "radiation challenge" ideas.  The title of the challenge was actually "Reducing Galactic Cosmic Rays to Enable Long Duration Deep Space Human Exploration", I assume the winner's "shield" may protect a spacecraft from SEP (from the sun) but not GCR unless the shield completely enveloped the spacecraft - which would be a hell of an engineering challenge.  It may have been a good answer - but perhaps not to the question.

 

NASA have new GCR simulation, the mouse study exposed mice to HZE including Fe +26 , but not at (anywhere near) the energies of GCR, not at the sustained (but lower) dose, no idea of what dose and spectrum for the astronauts would be - because they don't know what shielding can be practically used.  Oh - and the test subjects were mice.

 

Then this study is suggesting that radiation induced CVD may be much more of a hazard than assumed (it was known about, but assumed to be less of a risk than radiation induced cancer).  If that's correct, then it's back to the drawing board.

 

 




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  Reply # 1602626 2-Aug-2016 00:23
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JWR: 

 

Probably have to be something more like this...

 

 

 

That's a cosmonaut - not an astronaut or an alien.  If we find them on Mars, then Russia got there first.


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  Reply # 1602642 2-Aug-2016 07:10
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So what happens with the people who have signed up/picked/offered to go to Mars in ?2018


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  Reply # 1602643 2-Aug-2016 07:21
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Exploration is good. Past base exploration, I guess its seeking other places to live, gather resources, etc. I reckon there might be another planet in the solar system worth checking out. Maybe one that needs a bit of repair first. Can't think where.....


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  Reply # 1602644 2-Aug-2016 07:24
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I am sure Trump will tell us he has a fix for this




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  Reply # 1602651 2-Aug-2016 07:54
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JWR:

 

Linuxluver:

 

So it looks like creating a magnetosphere of some kind - at least locally - is an important thing to do. 

 

 

 

 

Water is relatively good for absorbing the radiation.

 

They have to take a lot of water for human space travel.

 

The walls could be lined with it.

 

 

Regular H2O? Or Deuterium? (D2O) They use the latter in nuclear reactors to cool the core and minimise radiation leakage. 

 

(Just asking for clarity on the point). 





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  Reply # 1602666 2-Aug-2016 08:15
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MikeB4: I am sure Trump will tell us he has a fix for this

 

Make Mars great again?




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  Reply # 1602677 2-Aug-2016 08:35
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Linuxluver:

 

JWR:

 

Linuxluver:

 

So it looks like creating a magnetosphere of some kind - at least locally - is an important thing to do. 

 

 

 

 

Water is relatively good for absorbing the radiation.

 

They have to take a lot of water for human space travel.

 

The walls could be lined with it.

 

 

Regular H2O? Or Deuterium? (D2O) They use the latter in nuclear reactors to cool the core and minimise radiation leakage. 

 

(Just asking for clarity on the point). 

 

 

 

 

I'm guessing that regular H20 would be safer and more efficient, D20 not used for shielding as such but as a neutron moderator in reactors.

 

An advantage of water for shielding is that it's needed anyway to sustain life, but they'd need to recycle it to keep the tanks full.  Hydrogen (fuel) could be used for the same purpose, but with the problem that once it's used you haven't got a shield.


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