GCSB Protest March

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#878577 15-Aug-2013 10:05

Geektastic:
turnin: Listening to newstalkzb tonight was interesting. Kerre McVeigh(woodham) believes that callers who stated american agencies have access to nz'ers emails are just paranoid and reading too many misinformation websites. Which brings me to my point about democracy. The media ultimately control public opinion. Ive seen 2 classic cases this year where they have taken a side on an issue and most definitely censored comments so that those with another opinion or have information simply can't get info to the public. Incredible bias. So democracy is great if journalists are able to get all the facts to the public. Despite this information age most people will vote according to who is made to look good by the media.

Of course if you are concerned, you can circumvent the vast resources of the NSA for only $5! Yes - just send $5 to me and you will receive by return your guaranteed NSA-proof communication system as follows:

1) A pad of excellent lined A4 paper
2) A pack of 20 envelopes!
3) A First Class stamp
4) A ballpoint pen

Also included - at no extra charge - are detailed instructions on how to write a letter and use the analogue postal system!

That doesn't really work either.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Geektastic

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#878585 15-Aug-2013 10:23

SaltyNZ:
Geektastic:
turnin: Listening to newstalkzb tonight was interesting. Kerre McVeigh(woodham) believes that callers who stated american agencies have access to nz'ers emails are just paranoid and reading too many misinformation websites. Which brings me to my point about democracy. The media ultimately control public opinion. Ive seen 2 classic cases this year where they have taken a side on an issue and most definitely censored comments so that those with another opinion or have information simply can't get info to the public. Incredible bias. So democracy is great if journalists are able to get all the facts to the public. Despite this information age most people will vote according to who is made to look good by the media.

Of course if you are concerned, you can circumvent the vast resources of the NSA for only $5! Yes - just send $5 to me and you will receive by return your guaranteed NSA-proof communication system as follows:

1) A pad of excellent lined A4 paper
2) A pack of 20 envelopes!
3) A First Class stamp
4) A ballpoint pen

Also included - at no extra charge - are detailed instructions on how to write a letter and use the analogue postal system!

That doesn't really work either.

Well it's still something no one in NZ does as far as we know!

Of course, mailing them to a dead drop, posting them from places you don't live or work near, typing letter and the envelope addresses etc, ensuring your wear gloves at all times when handling etc would all make the images less useful than they could be!

And then writing in some random code using some obscure book as a key would make life even harder for them. Or even agreeing a unique code not based on anything in particular (e.g. agreeing that the phrase "I caught the bus to work this morning" will mean "You are green-lit on the target").

Woolly

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#878704 15-Aug-2013 12:23

If you want to go to the hassle of the secret squirrel root:

Steganography - hiding messages in plain sight.

Within images
http://www.codeproject.com/Tips/635715/Steganography-Simple-Implementation-in-Csharp
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/306039/Visual-Image-Cryptography-Generator

Within music (very clever)
http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/146628/Steganography-20-Generate-Melody-from-Text

The paranoia of the bogeyman (binman) makes for bad decision making. Great for increasing ones powers though.

The war on terror = A war without end against ghosts. More and more surveillance without success.

The Home(Father)land Security & Walmart madness.
"If you see something, Say something campaign"
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40552073/ns/us_news-security/t/homeland-security-taps-new-partner-terror-fight-wal-mart/#.Ugwfmj8su7k

Great for increasing Police budgets.

JimmyH

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#879146 15-Aug-2013 21:16

Klipspringer:

Surely the protection and security of the citizens of NZ is the number 1 priority the government has? (can you think of anything more important?). Now if protecting and securing the people involves breaking a few laws, then I am perfectly OK with it.

Only to a certain point. I'm kind of with good old Ben Franklin on this one - "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."

SaltyNZ

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#879167 15-Aug-2013 22:08

JimmyH:
Klipspringer:

Surely the protection and security of the citizens of NZ is the number 1 priority the government has? (can you think of anything more important?). Now if protecting and securing the people involves breaking a few laws, then I am perfectly OK with it.

Only to a certain point. I'm kind of with good old Ben Franklin on this one - "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."

I wonder if he's also ok with people being completely evil as long as they do it within the law?

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

sdav

846 posts

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#879194 15-Aug-2013 23:39

turnin: Listening to newstalkzb tonight was interesting. Kerre McVeigh(woodham) believes that callers who stated american agencies have access to nz'ers emails are just paranoid and reading too many misinformation websites. Which brings me to my point about democracy. The media ultimately control public opinion. Ive seen 2 classic cases this year where they have taken a side on an issue and most definitely censored comments so that those with another opinion or have information simply can't get info to the public. Incredible bias. So democracy is great if journalists are able to get all the facts to the public. Despite this information age most people will vote according to who is made to look good by the media.

I worked in the media for 5 years when I left school. Decided it was not the career for me. So disappointed with the people who worked in it and the new people coming through so I made the decision to leave - in fact the whole industry is messed up. Anytime someone says something like "but I read story in ABC and it said this!" in my head I think "well XYZ said the complete opposite". Anyone who takes a single source (esp main stream media) and forms their opinion on it is a fool IMO. But that's going off OT fast...

sdav

846 posts

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#879196 15-Aug-2013 23:47

Geektastic:

I'm not 100% convinced by democracy myself: it gives votes to idiots, which is a bad thing. The modern world is far too complex and the cost of rectifying economic mistakes far too great for people who can barely string a sentence together to be allowed an equal say in what happens. At the very least, a 'Voting Licence' should be required, for which you must sit a test to demonstrate a reasonable grasp of economics, foreign policy and so on. Passing a more stringent version of the licence test should be required before you can stand for election, too.

Hmmm I know what you mean but No! Instead of giving votes to only to the "educated" you are better educating everyone equally in the first place.

The reason I don't jump on the band wagon and criticise the government at every opportunity is I know the world is more complex than I will ever (and sometimes care to) understand. I think the current state of mis-information and half truth politics to undermine whoever is in power just for the sake of it is more damaging and gets the country nowhere. The Greens are the worst at it I think. OT again... I'll leave it there!

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Dratsab

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#879204 16-Aug-2013 00:10

Geektastic: Of course, mailing them to a dead drop, posting them from places you don't live or work near, typing letter and the envelope addresses etc, ensuring your wear gloves at all times when handling etc would all make the images less useful than they could be!

Reminds me of a 'tard who (going back a few years) wrote something he shouldn't to someone he shouldn't and was quite surprised to get a knock at his door a week or so later. He complained he'd worn gloves when writing & posting the letter but completely forgot that he hadn't when buying the envelopes.

PaulBags

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#879264 16-Aug-2013 08:46

sdav:
Geektastic:

I'm not 100% convinced by democracy myself: it gives votes to idiots, which is a bad thing. The modern world is far too complex and the cost of rectifying economic mistakes far too great for people who can barely string a sentence together to be allowed an equal say in what happens. At the very least, a 'Voting Licence' should be required, for which you must sit a test to demonstrate a reasonable grasp of economics, foreign policy and so on. Passing a more stringent version of the licence test should be required before you can stand for election, too.

Hmmm I know what you mean but No! Instead of giving votes to only to the "educated" you are better educating everyone equally in the first place.

The reason I don't jump on the band wagon and criticise the government at every opportunity is I know the world is more complex than I will ever (and sometimes care to) understand. I think the current state of mis-information and half truth politics to undermine whoever is in power just for the sake of it is more damaging and gets the country nowhere. The Greens are the worst at it I think. OT again... I'll leave it there!

Education doesn't work like that, some people just can't or won't be educated.

As for misinformation and half truths: whoever is in power will use them to undermine whomever they like, media outlets will use them to push an agenda or simply out of ignorance. The whole point of politics is to balance conflicting interests, sure if there is no conflict between government and opposition then we might have peace, but we might also have a dictatorship where a significant amount of people are disenfranchised and ignored.

adw

175 posts

Master Geek

#879510 16-Aug-2013 13:36

John Key's latest statement would be really laughable if it wasn't so serious - he really must think all New Zealanders are complete idiots. Here is what he's said,

"In that warrant application, the Prime Minister would also expect the GCSB to seek the consent of the New Zealander involved, unless there were very good reasons not to do so"

Hmm, how about 'because you're spying on them' if there wasn't a good reason not be spying on them you could just knock on their door and ask them if they'd mind you taking a peak at their email. You wouldn't bother applying for a warrant. The full article is here. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10913351

He just doesn't seem to realise that the law needs to be robust - it can depend on any PM deciding how it should be interpreted.

Geektastic

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#879544 16-Aug-2013 14:22

sdav:
Geektastic:

I'm not 100% convinced by democracy myself: it gives votes to idiots, which is a bad thing. The modern world is far too complex and the cost of rectifying economic mistakes far too great for people who can barely string a sentence together to be allowed an equal say in what happens. At the very least, a 'Voting Licence' should be required, for which you must sit a test to demonstrate a reasonable grasp of economics, foreign policy and so on. Passing a more stringent version of the licence test should be required before you can stand for election, too.

Hmmm I know what you mean but No! Instead of giving votes to only to the "educated" you are better educating everyone equally in the first place.

The reason I don't jump on the band wagon and criticise the government at every opportunity is I know the world is more complex than I will ever (and sometimes care to) understand. I think the current state of mis-information and half truth politics to undermine whoever is in power just for the sake of it is more damaging and gets the country nowhere. The Greens are the worst at it I think. OT again... I'll leave it there!

How can you educate everyone equally? My IQ is almost 140. How can you educate someone whose IQ is say 90 equally to me? How can you educate me equally to someone whose IQ is say 180?

Some people are just stupid. They should not be allowed to vote unless they can prove that they understand what they are being asked to vote on. Otherwise it is too easy for politicians to bribe them with cheaper petrol/beer/fags/houses (insert the bribe du jour here) because they are unable to extrapolate the consequences of what they are being offered.

We expect people to demonstrate minimum levels of skill and understanding when they want to drive a car: why not when they decide on our collective future?

SaltyNZ

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#879547 16-Aug-2013 14:24

Geektastic:

We expect people to demonstrate minimum levels of skill and understanding when they want to drive a car: why not when they decide on our collective future?

Not that I don't completely empathise, but I guess because that's one step away from eugenics and/or old-school Rudyard Kipling "white man's burden" stuff.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Woolly

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#879635 16-Aug-2013 16:10

Geektastic - "They should not be allowed to vote unless they can prove that they understand what they are being asked to vote on."

The quote above made me laugh as I was thinking of MP's.

Geektastic

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#879840 16-Aug-2013 22:35

SaltyNZ:
Geektastic:

We expect people to demonstrate minimum levels of skill and understanding when they want to drive a car: why not when they decide on our collective future?

Not that I don't completely empathise, but I guess because that's one step away from eugenics and/or old-school Rudyard Kipling "white man's burden" stuff.

I'm not sure how requiring a minimum intelligence level for voting is any more a demonstration of eugenics than requiring the same for driving....

Geektastic

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#879841 16-Aug-2013 22:37

Woolly: Geektastic - "They should not be allowed to vote unless they can prove that they understand what they are being asked to vote on."

The quote above made me laugh as I was thinking of MP's.

I agree entirely. There should also be a test (a harder one to pass) before you can stand for election. And another even harder one before you can become a Minister.

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