New Zealand Post-Covid: What Positive Changes Do You Expect To See?

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#2456298 7-Apr-2020 09:40

cshwone:

I think the point is that one way of getting the country back up and running is by implementing big infrastructure projects. The suggestion above supports that and also adds to the tourism, safety and environmental discussion.

The initial post was the Govt having a strategy on tourism. If you take your comment above, then we can use that as a generic coverall for any part of our economy. Kiwifruit not selling well? Build infrastructure. Its a way to have a suggestion that isnt a suggestion. When tourists have the ability to tour, they will tour, you dont need a rail lnne, or a bridge or a road to do that. The safety and envoronmental discussion is unrelated to todays problem.

mudguard

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#2456301 7-Apr-2020 09:44

frankv:

bmt:

...we also have droves of largely Europeans buying a cheap and nasty van to live out of for weeks/months, contributing next to nothing to the local economy but clogging up roads, amenities etc.

The act of buying a cheap and nasty van contributes to the economy. Assuming the van is registered, they will be contributing to the upkeep and improvement of the roads they are clogging. If the rego isn't sufficient for that, then that's a different issue.

I'd like to see the numbers on it. Personally I think your average freedom camper contributes an absolute minimum to the economy. I travel for work, so I'm in motels, restaurants and supermarkets a lot. My completely anecdotal survey notices that they tend to be buying the absolute basic groceries to keep going. It seems many of the vans can barely do 100kmh as well.

SaltyNZ

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#2456352 7-Apr-2020 10:54

Geektastic:

Easy enough. Just tighten the rules about vehicle age, emissions, safety technology etc for campers and scrap anything that doesn’t meet them.

I may be imagining things but I seem to remember you arguing against measures that would make cheap cars more expensive, back when EV feebates for NZ were first being discussed, on account of poor people being disadvantaged!

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KrazyKid

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#2456358 7-Apr-2020 11:10

shk292:

re the cheap campervanners - these contribute so little and bring visual (and other) pollution wherever they go. A difficult one to tackle though without either making campervanning very expensive for the many kiwis who enjoy it, or going all xenophobic. Experience shows that for every regulation there are several loopholes.

Yes they individually contribute a little bit only in each place, there is a quality in numbers all of its own as the saying goes.

some figures I found puts the average spend of backpackers at $3,700 and the average stay at 31 days.
So a bit over $100 a day spend each.

But the number of backpackers per year was quoted at 159,000. That's $600 million a year.
so while it would be nice to get more big spending tourists, backpackers are good.

I assume camper vans are a subset of all backpackers, but are basically in the same spend bracket (vans instead of hostels)

networkn

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#2456386 7-Apr-2020 11:40

tdgeek:

Thats quite a stretch. Infrastructure is for all of us, including tourism. Im not aware of any infrastructure being lost since Jan 2020, so that we can now have discussions on how to get it back. What was lost was tourists. How we stop ALL tourists ruining the environment hasnt been caused by this virus, its always been an issue and is always on the table.

You seem to have misunderstood. We aren't saying infrastructure has been lost, we are saying tourism has been lost. While it's lost, we should be looking at ways to recover it and doing projects that make it both more attractive, easier and safer to get to, maintain areas that are run down, and look to protect those high traffic areas so when we get people coming back, they don't cause as much damage to the environment that they do now.

All of those things should have a positive impact on employment.

mudguard

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#2456389 7-Apr-2020 11:46

KrazyKid:

Yes they individually contribute a little bit only in each place, there is a quality in numbers all of its own as the saying goes.

some figures I found puts the average spend of backpackers at $3,700 and the average stay at 31 days.
So a bit over $100 a day spend each.

But the number of backpackers per year was quoted at 159,000. That's $600 million a year.
so while it would be nice to get more big spending tourists, backpackers are good.

I assume camper vans are a subset of all backpackers, but are basically in the same spend bracket (vans instead of hostels)

How does that money stack up in terms of the infrastructure pressure? Places like Punakaiki desperately need to upgrade their water supply, how many public loos and showers need to be built nationally for that industry? And who pays for it? Local ratepayers?

On a purely aesthetic view I can't stand them. Drive up the West Coast of the South Island, come to a lay-by, rest stop, and there will be half a dozen vans parked up, washing hanging out etc.

Yes it's possibly elitist, a $200,000 motorhome probably wouldn't get the same reaction, but generally, given the cost of motorhomes, you see far fewer of them. I'd just rather see freedom campers use existing facilities, campgrounds etc, which are designed for that kind of traveler.

tdgeek

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#2456396 7-Apr-2020 12:03

networkn:

You seem to have misunderstood. We aren't saying infrastructure has been lost, we are saying tourism has been lost. While it's lost, we should be looking at ways to recover it and doing projects that make it both more attractive, easier and safer to get to, maintain areas that are run down, and look to protect those high traffic areas so when we get people coming back, they don't cause as much damage to the environment that they do now.

All of those things should have a positive impact on employment.

They enable tourism by building infrastructure and some of that will be in support of tourism, which is (was) our second biggest export. I expect to see discussions held around when and how we can bring that back.

I took infrastructure as the big point in that extract, and that I could see no reason to have discussions in getting tourism back. When the national lockdown ends, tourism will come back, domestically, for those that can afford it. Internationally that will be a long while. All of this is known, no need to talk about it. Yes, its a good idea to tidy up picnic areas, paint Queenstown wharf and such like, but thats small pickings in the greater scheme of things. You could equally say the same about all our parks and reserves that we ALL use. I just dont feel that tidying up these things that should already be done by both Govt, Local Govt and the operators themselves is a fix for anything. Whats more important is the national economy, not tourists, we already have what tourists want. The scenery, attractions and facilities. Employment creation should be targeted at all parts of NZ. Many parts garner no benefits from tourism. Tourism was already successful here as it existed prior to January.

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frankv

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#2456401 7-Apr-2020 12:09

mudguard:

I'd like to see the numbers on it. Personally I think your average freedom camper contributes an absolute minimum to the economy. I travel for work, so I'm in motels, restaurants and supermarkets a lot. My completely anecdotal survey notices that they tend to be buying the absolute basic groceries to keep going. It seems many of the vans can barely do 100kmh as well.

I'd like to see the numbers too. We all contribute as little as possible to the economy... we aim to get the most with the least spend. But my understanding is that freedom campers come here with a budget. What they don't spend on travel and living expenses they spend on other stuff: skydiving, whale watching, bungee jumping, etc, etc. Increase the living or travelling costs, and either they'll spend less on other stuff, or they won't come at all.

I agree about slow vans on the road being a pain. But my experience is the problem's more with the relatively expensive rental vans than others. And there are many other impediments to free-flowing traffic. The answer to all these issues is more road lanes, not clamping down on a small subset.

networkn

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#2456407 7-Apr-2020 12:17

tdgeek:

They enable tourism by building infrastructure and some of that will be in support of tourism, which is (was) our second biggest export. I expect to see discussions held around when and how we can bring that back.

I took infrastructure as the big point in that extract, and that I could see no reason to have discussions in getting tourism back. When the national lockdown ends, tourism will come back, domestically, for those that can afford it. Internationally that will be a long while. All of this is known, no need to talk about it. Yes, its a good idea to tidy up picnic areas, paint Queenstown wharf and such like, but thats small pickings in the greater scheme of things. You could equally say the same about all our parks and reserves that we ALL use. I just dont feel that tidying up these things that should already be done by both Govt, Local Govt and the operators themselves is a fix for anything. Whats more important is the national economy, not tourists, we already have what tourists want. The scenery, attractions and facilities. Employment creation should be targeted at all parts of NZ. Many parts garner no benefits from tourism. Tourism was already successful here as it existed prior to January.

I think you've still misunderstood the points being made.

tdgeek

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#2456408 7-Apr-2020 12:23

networkn:

I think you've still misunderstood the points being made.

Incorrect. I see your point in helping tourism recover and the benefit to employment that will benefit those that are part of that employment. And the benefit of helping tourism. You see far more gains than I.

mudguard

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#2456410 7-Apr-2020 12:26

frankv:

What they don't spend on travel and living expenses they spend on other stuff: skydiving, whale watching, bungee jumping, etc, etc. Increase the living or travelling costs, and either they'll spend less on other stuff, or they won't come at all.

That's not something I can answer. If the budget is so tight, I'm not sure there is that much money left over for those activities. It seems a nice low key way of travelling, taking photos and living cheaply, and that's about it.

But I don't know, I go to plenty of tourist hotspots, but for work, so I don't know who is actually doing all the touristy stuff, but you need deep pockets for some of it!!

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#2456418 7-Apr-2020 12:38

With a bit of luck the pigeon population in Wellington might come down. I'm sure this goes for other cities as well. No real science behind that, I just figure less people = less food = pigeons starve.

Did Eric Clapton really think she looked wonderful...or was it after the 15th outfit she tried on and he just wanted to get to the party and get a drink?

risingstar

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#2456419 7-Apr-2020 12:39

This crisis showed the value of professionals (such as medical workers, police, supply chain workers, checkout operators,etc..) who were generally overlooked by the public. I hope this drives some inspiration to invest and sustain those people in this field. In the far end of the spectrum, this may even motivate the next generation to pursue a career in one of these fields (At the least now their IG / Tik Tok superstars look normal and grounded).

There will be emphasis on food supply and impact on shortage of it. Maybe this is the time to end the duopoly and make arrangements for another provider to avoid major price fluctuation and demand issues.

There will be some focus on Plan B if the international supply chain is affected (this will impact both NZ and other countries as well).

Along with huge investments in clinical drug research, there will be research focused on highly efficient food production and manufacturing (e.g. 3D printing of supply chain sensitive products)

City living won't be a preference anymore. Interest on self-sustainable produce will grow. Habit of Saving money and personal hygiene will be a new norm.

Though many things could have been done better by the government (like early border lock-down and strict isolation rules for international travelers arriving here), personally, I feel the response so far from the government is sane compared to chaotic reactions elsewhere in the world (Read this for context) and I am glad that we are here where we are.

Zepanda66

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#2456420 7-Apr-2020 12:40

I dont think we're ever going to go back to normal tbh. We will mourn but we'll never truly heal, this virus will leave a permanent scar on us as a species. The amount of people with depression and anxiety will increase. Unemployment is obviously gonna go up as various industry's continue to collapse. Social distancing might be the new norm even post-corona. At least for the first year. Its going to be a while before we get back to some sort of normalcy if we ever do. Work from home will certainly be pretty common moving forward. I think it could be the great depression 2.0

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floydbloke

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#2456423 7-Apr-2020 12:46

Zepanda66:

I dont think we're ever going to go back to normal tbh. We will mourn but we'll never truly heal, this virus will leave a permanent scar on us as a species. The amount of people with depression and anxiety will increase. Unemployment is obviously gonna go up as various industry's continue to collapse. Social distancing might be the new norm even post-corona. At least for the first year. Its going to be a while before we get back to some sort of normalcy if we ever do. Work from home will certainly be pretty common moving forward. I think it could be the great depression 2.0

Did you forget to read the topic heading? 😉

Did Eric Clapton really think she looked wonderful...or was it after the 15th outfit she tried on and he just wanted to get to the party and get a drink?

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