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#272679 9-Jul-2020 08:23
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300052786/tiwai-point-to-close-1000-jobs-to-go

 

 


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  #2519774 9-Jul-2020 08:30
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I wonder if new transmission lines could become one of the projects for the recovery. Perhaps a second HVDC link between the Islands?

 

Hopefully they will ensure that this gets cleaned up before they go.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121421093/rio-tinto-remains-committed-to-southland-premix-removal

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  #2519776 9-Jul-2020 08:36
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Assuming the excess power can be sent north, it could be a good opportunity to wind down coal and gas generation, although I have no idea about the intricacies of power generation and load demand.

I wonder if the Govt has a plan B?

 
 
 
 




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  #2519779 9-Jul-2020 08:40
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MrAmerica: Assuming the excess power can be sent north, it could be a good opportunity to wind down coal and gas generation, although I have no idea about the intricacies of power generation and load demand.

I wonder if the Govt has a plan B?

 

When this has been raised in other threads and in the news, it apparently will increase power prices. Possibly as its not needed by us, so it costs to have it running, plus its $600M to connect to the grid as Manapouri Hydro, owned by NZ, is not connected to the grid. Re coal and gas, who often is that used? IIRC it costs a mint to shut down Manapouri and to start it up

 

Be interesting to see the implications and variables from those that know more about it


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  #2519782 9-Jul-2020 08:48
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They need more transmission lines to send the power north, but Manapouri (which I believe was built to service Tiwai) generates a lot of power (nearly the same as the whole Huntly power station, or about 80% of all the dams on the Waikato River).

 

 

 

Edit: Manapouri is connected to the grid, but I don't think there is enough capacity in the transmission lines north for the amount of electricity is produces. Others will know more about this than I. Manapouri is a pretty awesome piece of engineering. I remember going down to the power house underground when I was a kid.


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  #2519785 9-Jul-2020 08:51
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Gas generation is often used for baseload as well as peak generation (e.g. e3p at Huntly was running 24/7 through Level 4 lockdown even though demand/prices were low). Manapouri is a baseload generation plant, so presumably that could displace gas baseload, but won't displace peak generation needs


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  #2519791 9-Jul-2020 08:56
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The press release is at pains to point out the closure is due to “high energy costs”. The cynic in me says it’s an attempt to force the government into intervening to save jobs.

 

I wonder whether the energy could be used for carbon capture in Bluff if it isn’t cost effective to transmit it north. Or produce hydrogen.





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  #2519793 9-Jul-2020 08:59
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Just nationalise it.





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  #2519794 9-Jul-2020 08:59
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trig42:

 

They need more transmission lines to send the power north, but Manapouri (which I believe was built to service Tiwai) generates a lot of power (nearly the same as the whole Huntly power station, or about 80% of all the dams on the Waikato River).

 

 

 

Edit: Manapouri is connected to the grid, but I don't think there is enough capacity in the transmission lines north for the amount of electricity is produces. Others will know more about this than I. Manapouri is a pretty awesome piece of engineering. I remember going down to the power house underground when I was a kid.

 

 

Yeah, from memory when Transpower were planning the last HVDC upgrade, they had future projects in place to uprate the links to pump more power north on the previso that Tiwai closed down.  Unlikely to instigate a 3rd HVDC link, but theres potential to increase what they are able to transmit now.

 

Coming from the HV industry, this is major news and will have lots of flow on effect of potential new projects and the surplus of power should drop the market price = new projects not being viable.


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  #2519802 9-Jul-2020 09:10
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rb99:

 

Just nationalise it.

 

 

The problem is that the smelter is part of an integrated supply chain,  and it a tolling plant,

 

Rio bring in the raw ingredients, ( from their mines in Australia) process it and then export it to market,

 

If You took over the plant, without access to Bauxite and Alumina ( of which we have little in NZ) its a bit useless


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  #2519804 9-Jul-2020 09:14
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rb99:

 

Just nationalise it.

 

 

I'd guess that might be a problem as Rio Tinto probably wouldn't welcome a competitor (be that nationalised or a private buyer) buying the plant. They'd prefer to strip it out and shut it down. 
I suppose one of the associated issues is that the smelter makes high purity (99.985%) aluminium - used in the aerospace industry.  With thousands of planes parked up in storage, I'd be surprised if there's not going to be a glut of those grades for the foreseeable future.


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  #2519811 9-Jul-2020 09:22
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There goes my Meridian Energy share price 🙁





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  #2519830 9-Jul-2020 09:41
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eracode:

There goes my Meridian Energy share price 🙁



Short term maybe. Long term I think its a very attractive share if Tiwai close.

Dont think I would be investing in wind generation right now though.

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  #2519833 9-Jul-2020 09:47
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It’s more or less been “closing” every year since I moved to NZ! I suppose eventually that will be true.





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  #2519842 9-Jul-2020 09:54
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I'm sure the 2600 people in a small community really feel for you that have lost a bit of money on stocks.


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  #2519843 9-Jul-2020 09:55
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So you don't reckon Rio would be happy to still have someone to keep buying stuff from its mines, not that I know what percentage NZ takes. And I would have thought buyers buy from anyone if the price is right (I know big if).

 

Just seems such a pity we seem to be getting less self reliant than ever. Where will we be without Fonterra and the whims of its biggest export market.





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