Issue with 24/7 Hosting

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9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1106298 11-Aug-2014 11:59

kobiak: 247hosting is up and running (dont know for how long).
I urgently emailed all my clients/friends to do back-ups and download ASAP. I know few people who could not get anything from 247 for 3-4 weeks now.

FWIW:

I was one of the lucky ones who saw the signs early and moved away, though it did take many hours to transfer everything.

I didn't want others to get caught in the lurch, so I tried to find a government or industry body that would look into things, and after many more hours of phone calls along the lines of "Not really our thing, and no, can't say who would handle it" - I finally tried the Commerce Commission.

This was back in mid-May. I explained that while I did have unanswered support tickets about 24/7 double-charging and not crediting payments, I wasn't asking them to do anything about that- I was writing because I was concerned that hundreds or possibly thousands of small businesses could get caught without websites if the company fell over.

Below, if you need a wry chuckle, is the result (which came about two months after the collapse).

-----
Dear Minty

Thank you for the information you provided the Commission regarding 24/7 Hosting.

We have now assessed this information, and although it may raise issues under the Fair Trading Act, the Commission will not be taking any action at this time. We note that the business appears to have had a change in management and is now operational.

When we decide whether to open an investigation, we consider how widespread, blatant and damaging the issue appears to be, based on the information available. We use our Enforcement criteria to help us make these decisions. You can read about our enforcement criteria at www.comcom.govt.nz/enforcement-criteria.

Our decision does not prevent you from taking your own action. Only the courts can ultimately decide whether any conduct breaches the Act. The Fair Trading Act specifically provides for action by individuals, even when the Commission has decided not to take any action.

Yours sincerely

xxxxx

Commerce Commission | Te Komihana Tauhokohoko

-----

My reply:

Hi xxxx,

I see you're closing the gate; the horse, however, has more than already bolted- it's taken a leisurely world-wide trip of all the major continents.

I had already moved all my hosting, so I was not doing this for myself. It was my hope that when I raised the matter, it might see some prompt action that would save hundreds or even thousands of small New Zealand businesses having their websites and domains vanish. That does not appear to be the case.

As far as the business being operational, I'm at a loss as to how you judge that. Yes, I'm still getting ongoing demands for payments for invoices for domains and hosting (despite no longer being with 24/7), but no, I cannot log in to change anything in my customer panel because the entire system is down.

Perhaps when you go here: http://247hosting.co.nz/
and click 'Client Login', you'll have more luck than a big error message but I sincerely doubt it. Perhaps your definition of 'operational' means sending out bills but not providing services; if so, my apologies for misunderstanding how business works.

Like many others, I've given up hope of seeing any refund for 24/7's double invoicing and other fraudulent practices. I don't believe my support requests about it (now months old) will ever be attended to.

But it would have been nice if someone could have put out an alert back when everything was first falling apart. Then people would have had a chance to move their websites before they were lost, which in many cases would have caused a large business impact.

I am glad that the hour I spent chasing various agencies to find out who actually had any responsibility in this area (it seems nobody knows), and then the further time I spent listing the issues, has at least had the full effect of generating a reply email suggesting that I... take an individual claim to court myself.

-------

In summary: It would be nice if there was a department, perhaps even a commission, that was responsible for things to do with bad commercial practices of the sort shown by 24/7. We could call it... I don't know, the Commission Of Commerce? Or something snappier...

ubergeeknz

3344 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Vocus

#1106299 11-Aug-2014 12:02

I suspect they simply have bigger fish to fry.

Just don't pay. They can't really make you at any rate, unless they want to take it to court, then you have plenty of evidence why you shouldn't.

amorpeth

90 posts

Master Geek

#1106566 11-Aug-2014 15:46

mintsauce:
kobiak: 247hosting is up and running (dont know for how long).
I urgently emailed all my clients/friends to do back-ups and download ASAP. I know few people who could not get anything from 247 for 3-4 weeks now.

FWIW:

I was one of the lucky ones who saw the signs early and moved away, though it did take many hours to transfer everything.

I didn't want others to get caught in the lurch, so I tried to find a government or industry body that would look into things, and after many more hours of phone calls along the lines of "Not really our thing, and no, can't say who would handle it" - I finally tried the Commerce Commission.

This was back in mid-May. I explained that while I did have unanswered support tickets about 24/7 double-charging and not crediting payments, I wasn't asking them to do anything about that- I was writing because I was concerned that hundreds or possibly thousands of small businesses could get caught without websites if the company fell over.

Below, if you need a wry chuckle, is the result (which came about two months after the collapse).

-----
Dear Minty Thank you for the information you provided the Commission regarding 24/7 Hosting. We have now assessed this information, and although it may raise issues under the Fair Trading Act, the Commission will not be taking any action at this time. We note that the business appears to have had a change in management and is now operational. When we decide whether to open an investigation, we consider how widespread, blatant and damaging the issue appears to be, based on the information available. We use our Enforcement criteria to help us make these decisions. You can read about our enforcement criteria at www.comcom.govt.nz/enforcement-criteria. Our decision does not prevent you from taking your own action. Only the courts can ultimately decide whether any conduct breaches the Act. The Fair Trading Act specifically provides for action by individuals, even when the Commission has decided not to take any action. Yours sincerely xxxxx Commerce Commission | Te Komihana Tauhokohoko

-----

My reply:

Hi xxxx,

I see you're closing the gate; the horse, however, has more than already bolted- it's taken a leisurely world-wide trip of all the major continents.

I had already moved all my hosting, so I was not doing this for myself. It was my hope that when I raised the matter, it might see some prompt action that would save hundreds or even thousands of small New Zealand businesses having their websites and domains vanish. That does not appear to be the case.

As far as the business being operational, I'm at a loss as to how you judge that. Yes, I'm still getting ongoing demands for payments for invoices for domains and hosting (despite no longer being with 24/7), but no, I cannot log in to change anything in my customer panel because the entire system is down.

Perhaps when you go here: http://247hosting.co.nz/
and click 'Client Login', you'll have more luck than a big error message but I sincerely doubt it. Perhaps your definition of 'operational' means sending out bills but not providing services; if so, my apologies for misunderstanding how business works.

Like many others, I've given up hope of seeing any refund for 24/7's double invoicing and other fraudulent practices. I don't believe my support requests about it (now months old) will ever be attended to.

But it would have been nice if someone could have put out an alert back when everything was first falling apart. Then people would have had a chance to move their websites before they were lost, which in many cases would have caused a large business impact.

I am glad that the hour I spent chasing various agencies to find out who actually had any responsibility in this area (it seems nobody knows), and then the further time I spent listing the issues, has at least had the full effect of generating a reply email suggesting that I... take an individual claim to court myself.

-------

In summary: It would be nice if there was a department, perhaps even a commission, that was responsible for things to do with bad commercial practices of the sort shown by 24/7. We could call it... I don't know, the Commission Of Commerce? Or something snappier...

Nicely worded reply :) I also registered a complaint with the Commerce Commission. They initially said that it was being passed to an investigator to assess, then I never heard back. I should chase it up and see what happened, be interesting to see if the responses lined up.

TFG14

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1106582 11-Aug-2014 16:08

I received the same bull5h!t response from commerce commission too saying they weren't taking it any further.. in response to them saying they weren't convinced 24/7 activities were "widespread, blatant and damaging" I sent an email back with about a dozen links to forums with the hundreds of people affected by their fraudulent behaviour but didn't hear anything back. What a joke, no wonder these scumbags can just keep on doing it and the reinvent themselves.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#1106585 11-Aug-2014 16:09

Interesting how getting more than one complaint about the same company is not enough to make the Commerce Commission move...

kornflake

409 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1107291 12-Aug-2014 21:06

wounder if fair go, are across this thread? as they did a piece on 24/7 the other week.

Jeeves

301 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1111293 19-Aug-2014 13:58

The Domain name commission has basically told domain holders who are registered through 24/7 to transfer their domains within a month. At the end of that month (19th Sept), any domains remaining with 247h will be cancelled. Good bye 24/7 hosting!

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sifly

69 posts

Master Geek

#1111294 19-Aug-2014 14:02

Oh well - can't say people haven't has plenty of warning.

I agree about the Commerce Commission though. That's pretty bloody slack - I wonder what it takes...

mintsauce

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1111299 19-Aug-2014 14:15

sifly:I agree about the Commerce Commission though. That's pretty bloody slack - I wonder what it takes...

Well, as it turns out, they've just followed up! I've got an email from them asking:

Have you been able to contact 24/7 and resolve the invoicing issue?
Did this stop any further invoices?

Are you still a customer of 24/7?

I've let them know it's a NO to all 3.

Pleased to see that perhaps wheels are turning...

sifly

69 posts

Master Geek

#1111301 19-Aug-2014 14:19

I had a response to an online query the day before yesterday from "Sarah".
I was complaining about the invoices too - they said I needed to "login" and cancel the domain service (which was cancelled months ago). They didnt seem to realise there was nothing there to cancel and finally said they would terminate it. And yet they still come..

Bye bye 24/7.

It shouldn't be too hard to spot you in another form when you rear your ugly head again...

seeby

13 posts

Geek

Trusted

Voyager Internet

#1111310 19-Aug-2014 14:40

Hi All

IMPORTANT NOTICE

Due to ongoing breaches of .NZ registry rules by 24/7 Hosting, the NZ Domain Name commission has instructed customers of 24/7 hosting to move their domain names to another reseller or registrar by 19 September.

http://dnc.org.nz/story/dncl-directs-voyager-internet-247-hosting-breaches

As Voyager Internet is the upstream provider of domain names to 24/7, customers will be able to move your domain name directly to Voyager or another 3rd party domain name registrar with a minimum of fuss.

Domain name customers will be sent an email by Voyager regarding this, but are welcome to contact us directly for further information also.

domains@voyager.co.nz
0800 477 333

Warm Regards

Seeby Woodhouse
CEO - Voyager Internet

www.voyager.co.nz

sifly

69 posts

Master Geek

#1111332 19-Aug-2014 14:55

What grinds my gears about this whole kerfuffle is that for such a "big" deal, the lack of response up to today from the powers that be. Sorry Seeby, rock and a hard place and all that but I would have thought you would have tried to shut them down a long time ago. It was blindingly obvious no good was going to come from a changeover. I mean, his ex(!)-girlfriend taking over? The media was useless on this - I'm sure there is tens of thousands of dollars tied up in all of this baloney and probably a lot of suckers still going to get burnt because of not really knowing what they are doing..

seeby

13 posts

Geek

Trusted

Voyager Internet

#1111338 19-Aug-2014 15:03

24/7 has been a pain for everyone, agreed.

However, these kinds of issues with a hosting company are a first for us, and a first for the NZ Domain Name commission also.
bear in mind that Voyager has about 50 companies that re-sell domain names, and 30 wholesale ISP customers - the vast majority of whom do a great job.

If we tried to "shut down" 24/7 Hosting without going through the proper channels that wouldn't sit too well with our other wholesale customers I imagine - so it's not really something we could have done a lot time ago.

Basically we're in an awkward position, and we're treading a fine line between doing the right thing by our wholesale customer (24/7 Hosting), and their end users (whom we haven't previously had a relationship with directly).

Now that the .NZ Domain Name Comission has taken action and ordered us to stop reselling to 24/7 or risk breaching our own Domain Name agreements, we will be forced to migrate the customers to Voyager / 1stDomains retail accounts, or those of another 3rd party, and then hopefully this will be the last of the issue...

Regards
Seeby

CEO - Voyager Internet

www.voyager.co.nz

mintsauce

9 posts

Wannabe Geek

#1116296 27-Aug-2014 10:10

Interesting article about 24/7 by Thomas Mead, who seems to be a bit of a lone champion of this issue in the media:

http://www.3news.co.nz/technology/web-provider-disappears-after-unprecedented-sanction-2014082706

Take away from it: if you know ANYBODY who's still with 24/7, they need to get out now before it completely implodes.

danielwd

46 posts

Geek

#1116299 27-Aug-2014 10:18

Reading all the angry comments on 247's Facebook page I'm just baffled that there are so many people still willing to put up with them. They've been down numerous times now and people still say things like "this is costing me $10k a day." How did they not move months ago???

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