2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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Awrrr
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#2670428 9-Mar-2021 11:45

vexxxboy:

or you could look at it like anyone can do the cool store job but there would be only 1 who could be an Olympian in his/her sport and i would also say that winning a medal makes the whole country feel proud and puts a smile on faces of most people which may be what the country needs this year

What makes me feel proud is our scientists finding solutions to the pandemic, and our writers winning literary prizes. Not everyone thinks sport is the only thing that matters.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Batman

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#2670462 9-Mar-2021 13:28

wellygary:

GV27:

Wonder what this means for the freezers we made a song and dance about arriving - I'm assuming that was for the multi-vaccine strategy we were first pursuing and now we appear to be more reliant on the Pfizer one to do the heavy lifting.

Q2 is just three and a bit weeks away.

The special freezers were only for the Pfizer vaccine, we apparently have space in them to hold 1.5 million doses (750K courses)

We might need a few more.. or if they can schedule the deliveries and scale up vaccinations to match it could be fine just holding 1 million or so doses as a buffer for any disruptions...

All the others in the strategy ( AZ, J+J, Novavax) all have storage at 2-8C, which can use the existing vaccine cold chain (that exists all the way to each GP/pharmacy) which we use for other vaccinations (flu etc)

from what i hear you don't need superfreezers at the consumer end. normal freezers will do.

there shouldn't be any reason to store 1.5 million vaccines. they should be in people's arms.

Geektastic

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#2670464 9-Mar-2021 13:46

Rikkitic:
vexxxboy:

or you could look at it like anyone can do the cool store job but there would be only 1 who could be an Olympian in his/her sport and i would also say that winning a medal makes the whole country feel proud and puts a smile on faces of most people which may be what the country needs this year

What makes me feel proud is our scientists finding solutions to the pandemic, and our writers winning literary prizes. Not everyone thinks sport is the only thing that matters.

In your examples, sport doesn’t matter at all when compared to science.

tdgeek

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#2670495 9-Mar-2021 14:55

Batman:

there shouldn't be any reason to store 1.5 million vaccines. they should be in people's arms.

True, we can bypass logistics, and get the 750,000 lining up at the airport when it arrives, sorted. A silly reply to a silly comment

DS248

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#2670498 9-Mar-2021 15:02

An interesting set of 'hard' data on allergic reactions to mRNA vaccines, all be they from a narrow population subset (~53,000 health care employees).

Blumenthal et al (2021), Acute Allergic Reactions to mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines, JAMA Research Letter, 8 March

About 2% in this health care employee sample reported some allergic symptoms
Severe reactions consistent with anaphylaxis occurred at a rate of 2.47 per 10,000 vaccinations

The latter figure is a quite lot higher than the incidence rate of anaphylaxis reported by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention based on "passive spontaneous reporting methods" (0.025-0.11/10 000 vaccinations). But according to the authors, 2.47 per 10,000 incidence rate they found is "largely comparable to other common health care exposures".

Will be interesting to see results from other formal prospective investigations.

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#2670501 9-Mar-2021 15:04

tdgeek:

Batman:

there shouldn't be any reason to store 1.5 million vaccines. they should be in people's arms.

True, we can bypass logistics, and get the 750,000 lining up at the airport when it arrives, sorted. A silly reply to a silly comment

you have no idea

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/02/25/pfizers-covid-vaccine-doesnt-need-ultra-cold-storage-fda-says/?sh=392a59a8226e

tdgeek

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#2670503 9-Mar-2021 15:12

Batman:

you have no idea

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/02/25/pfizers-covid-vaccine-doesnt-need-ultra-cold-storage-fda-says/?sh=392a59a8226e

You have no idea, I wasn't referring to the temp requirements, just the point that we don't need to store them they should be in peoples arms.

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#2670504 9-Mar-2021 15:18

tdgeek:

Batman:

you have no idea

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/02/25/pfizers-covid-vaccine-doesnt-need-ultra-cold-storage-fda-says/?sh=392a59a8226e

You have no idea, I wasn't referring to the temp requirements, just the point that we don't need to store them they should be in peoples arms.

there is no need to store one drop more than 1.499,999 million doses, for 15 days. they should be in people's arms in no time.

the fact that we have storage for 1.5 million, that's enough.

if you can't understand that then yeah sure let's buy storage for 7.5 million doses. why not. let's do it.

we probably will only get shipment of 100,000 every so often, but why not, i don't see any disadvantage of having more storage.

tdgeek

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#2670511 9-Mar-2021 15:28

Batman:

they should be in people's arms in no time.

In peoples arms is now in peoples arms in no time? I doubt anyone wishes to or will store them on the never never, but the gap between arrival and arms is storage and transport.

Handle9

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#2670569 9-Mar-2021 18:12

wellygary:

GV27:

Wonder what this means for the freezers we made a song and dance about arriving - I'm assuming that was for the multi-vaccine strategy we were first pursuing and now we appear to be more reliant on the Pfizer one to do the heavy lifting.

Q2 is just three and a bit weeks away.

The special freezers were only for the Pfizer vaccine, we apparently have space in them to hold 1.5 million doses (750K courses)

We might need a few more.. or if they can schedule the deliveries and scale up vaccinations to match it could be fine just holding 1 million or so doses as a buffer for any disruptions...

All the others in the strategy ( AZ, J+J, Novavax) all have storage at 2-8C, which can use the existing vaccine cold chain (that exists all the way to each GP/pharmacy) which we use for other vaccinations (flu etc)

If you are working on a 200 day program, which seems best case, then 1.5 million doses is enough to hold stock for 30days of vaccinations. That would seem adequate.

alexx

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#2670587 9-Mar-2021 18:54

Geektastic: Little hurry to get vaccinated? You obviously don’t work in tourism.

Not just tourism and sports people. The music industry needs to start touring again. For most musicians there's no money in sales and streaming, you only make a profit (or keep out of debt) from touring. Not just the musicians themselves, but anyone that's part of the touring support crew. But your options are going to be limited without a vaccine, which means you need one before the big northern hemisphere summer festival season starts.

But things are going to get awkward if you have a bunch of sports, entertainment and business people jumping the queue and you have another outbreak in vulnerable and at-risk communities that haven't been vaccinated yet. I can imagine the Herald headlines already.

#include <standard.disclaimer>

tdgeek

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#2670592 9-Mar-2021 19:05

alexx:

Geektastic: Little hurry to get vaccinated? You obviously don’t work in tourism.

Not just tourism and sports people. The music industry needs to start touring again. For most musicians there's no money in sales and streaming, you only make a profit (or keep out of debt) from touring. Not just the musicians themselves, but anyone that's part of the touring support crew. But your options are going to be limited without a vaccine, which means you need one before the big northern hemisphere summer festival season starts.

But things are going to get awkward if you have a bunch of sports, entertainment and business people jumping the queue and you have another outbreak in vulnerable and at-risk communities that haven't been vaccinated yet. I can imagine the Herald headlines already.

You also need to factor in that 95% efficacy isn't 95% effective. Way back in this thread 75% effective was seen as very good. That leaves 25% of vaccinated unprotected, and possible carriers. There is a lot that needs to be learned

As for some jumping the queue, we have 5 million in the queue. A cricket team and a band doesn't seem a big deal, same for business travellers, apart from the media's "interest" in that. Business man going to see Microsoft in Seattle got a vaccination before person X.

Some here exist to bash NZ's response. Im waiting with interest the comments over the latest sh!tshow re the vaccination project.

Handle9

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#2670597 9-Mar-2021 19:10

tdgeek:

You also need to factor in that 95% efficacy isn't 95% effective. Way back in this thread 75% effective was seen as very good. That leaves 25% of vaccinated unprotected, and possible carriers.

Nope. Efficacy is prevention of symptomatic infection.

The reduction in severe illness is much higher than the efficacy.

Shedding and or asymptomatic infection is different again and not yet studied. Vaccination will not eliminate COVID, it will limit the societal harm.

tdgeek

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#2670598 9-Mar-2021 19:10

alexx:

But things are going to get awkward if you have a bunch of sports, entertainment and business people jumping the queue and you have another outbreak in vulnerable and at-risk communities that haven't been vaccinated yet. I can imagine the Herald headlines already.

True, but what if a bunch of Kiwis got vaccinated and went on holiday as allowed by the incoming country and also allowed back here with no MIQ as they got vaccinated? Same deal IMHO. Business people also same deal.

Yes, I can also see the headlines. Maybe we close the borders for another 2 years to be certain??? Off course not, but its a blame game. Blame if a vaccinated arrival brought Covid in, blame if the travel isnt open pronto.

tdgeek

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#2670600 9-Mar-2021 19:14

Handle9:

Nope. Efficacy is prevention of symptomatic infection.

The reduction in severe illness is much higher than the efficacy.

Shedding and or asymptomatic infection is different again and not yet studied. Vaccination will not eliminate COVID, it will limit the societal harm.

OK. I read here and elsewhere that efficacy is the result from a controlled study. Im pretty certain of that. Effectiveness is real world, where there are many variables, lifestyle, risk, exposure etc.

Yes I get that even if it wasnt that effective against you, you should suffer less.

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