Obesity in NZ

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#1882835 13-Oct-2017 10:18

Dulouz:

kryptonjohn:

Paparangi:

All this talk about foods being fattening or not is besides the point. What it really comes down to is how much we eat. If you eat less kCal than you burn in a day, you lose weight. Eat as much as you burn and you stay the same. Eat more than you burn and you put weight on. You could (it would be very unhealthy) get away with eating McDonald's daily, as long as you ate less kCal than you burnt. Eating healthier food allows you to consume a higher volume of food before you reach the limit, same as exercise increases the limit. There are many apps to work out roughly how much you should be eating and that do all the tracking for you - MyFitnessPal being a great example.

I completely agree that healthy options should be cheaper, and that many people can only afford junk food, but there is nothing actually stopping them from only eating what they need, instead of what would be nice. It all comes down to self control.

Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, and this should not be considered advice for anyone - if you're concerned about your weight you really should consult with someone that has a degree.

I think the exception to the rule is the way the human body can recalibrate its own metabolism. Many people find that they don't lose weight simply by reducing intake as their body reacts by slowing its metabolic rate. It's because the human body wants to store fat (to cover periods without intake such as the cave man who has to get through winter).

That's why exercise is especially good. Not only does it burn up stored energy, but it can raise your metabolic rate for a period even once you've finished exercising.

If you're not losing weight by reducing calories you just haven't reduced your intake enough. And yes - exercise is amazing!

... as long as your metabolism doesn't prioritise retention of fat store over muscle protein!

MikeB4

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#1882837 13-Oct-2017 10:21

Dulouz:

If you're not losing weight by reducing calories you just haven't reduced your intake enough. And yes - exercise is amazing!

Blanket statements don't apply here as there are too many variables that can affect weight gain or weight loss.

Dulouz

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#1882845 13-Oct-2017 10:28

MikeB4:

Dulouz:

If you're not losing weight by reducing calories you just haven't reduced your intake enough. And yes - exercise is amazing!

Blanket statements don't apply here as there are too many variables that can affect weight gain or weight loss.

While that's true to a point, some of those variables are more important than others. I think it's clear that diet is the most salient variable.

Amanon

MikeB4

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#1882858 13-Oct-2017 10:38

Dulouz:

While that's true to a point, some of those variables are more important than others. I think it's clear that diet is the most salient variable.

yes and no, you cannot say a person is overweight because of what they eat, they maybe, but not necessarily. For example corticosteroids alter the may the body processes and distributes fat. A person being treated with these can be eating correctly but still put on weight. This also apples to Biologics

and some diseases.

afe66

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#1882926 13-Oct-2017 11:59

MikeAqua:
I have noticed spending a bit of time in outpatients that: -

- Doctors appear slimmer than average; and

- Patients are often overweight.

Lessons ...

Medicine training reasonably stressful, frequent mentions of importance of exercise as coping strategy at medical school and post graduate training.

Competitive personalities doing active exercise.

Most hospital doctors probably walk 10km round hospital each day.

Frequent exposure to complications of obesity

Dulouz

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#1882932 13-Oct-2017 12:08

IQ seems to play a part as well - https://www.jstor.org/stable/41459932?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents i.e. the lower your IQ the more likely you are to be obese.

Amanon

cadman

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#1882979 13-Oct-2017 13:09

Dulouz:

IQ seems to play a part as well - https://www.jstor.org/stable/41459932?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents i.e. the lower your IQ the more likely you are to be obese.

Which leads to...

Aredwood:

cadman:

But if you're simply counting calories, you're do it wrong.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/6-reasons-why-a-calorie-is-not-a-calorie#section1

Cereals and other carbs are what has made us fat, not eating fat. Eating fat does not even make you fat.

Quoting from that article:

Increased protein can lead to drastically reduced appetite and cause automatic weight loss without the need for calorie counting or portion control.

And

Low-carb diets consistently lead to more weight loss than low-fat diets, even when calories are matched between groups.

Since a low carbohydrate diet would need to have higher fat and protein content. And since protein helps to make you feel "full" You then run into major issues on how to buy protein rich foods on a budget. Potato's are only 2% protein, Brown rice is not much better at 2.6%, Mung beans are 24% protein so an improvement. But unless you add in a reasonable amount of animal products, (meat/dairy/eggs) It is difficult to get plenty of protein without also consuming lots of sugars.

And far more difficult again to get a decent amount of protein if you are on a tight budget. As most cooking advice for low budget meals is about tricks for using less meat, and using more of things like potato. And since carb and fat based raw ingredients are generally cheaper. Fast food companies have an incentive to reduce protein content and instead increase carb and fat content. As it makes meals cheaper to produce for a given serving size.

If you have a low IQ chances are you don't have particularly good income earning potential so you end up being forced to eat the wrong foods as a result.

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Shop now on AliExpress (affiliate link).

Dulouz

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#1882985 13-Oct-2017 13:22

cadman:

Dulouz:

IQ seems to play a part as well - https://www.jstor.org/stable/41459932?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents i.e. the lower your IQ the more likely you are to be obese.

Which leads to...

Aredwood:

cadman:

But if you're simply counting calories, you're do it wrong.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/6-reasons-why-a-calorie-is-not-a-calorie#section1

Cereals and other carbs are what has made us fat, not eating fat. Eating fat does not even make you fat.

Quoting from that article:

Increased protein can lead to drastically reduced appetite and cause automatic weight loss without the need for calorie counting or portion control.

And

Low-carb diets consistently lead to more weight loss than low-fat diets, even when calories are matched between groups.

Since a low carbohydrate diet would need to have higher fat and protein content. And since protein helps to make you feel "full" You then run into major issues on how to buy protein rich foods on a budget. Potato's are only 2% protein, Brown rice is not much better at 2.6%, Mung beans are 24% protein so an improvement. But unless you add in a reasonable amount of animal products, (meat/dairy/eggs) It is difficult to get plenty of protein without also consuming lots of sugars.

And far more difficult again to get a decent amount of protein if you are on a tight budget. As most cooking advice for low budget meals is about tricks for using less meat, and using more of things like potato. And since carb and fat based raw ingredients are generally cheaper. Fast food companies have an incentive to reduce protein content and instead increase carb and fat content. As it makes meals cheaper to produce for a given serving size.

If you have a low IQ chances are you don't have particularly good income earning potential so you end up being forced to eat the wrong foods as a result.

They are certainly not 'forced' to eat wrong foods. As discussed there are plenty of cheap and healthy food options. The big issue is they don't taste as good as junk food.

Amanon

Fred99

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#1883009 13-Oct-2017 14:02

The correlation with IQ (causal or not) doesn't explain the increasing epidemic.

Dulouz

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#1883011 13-Oct-2017 14:05

Fred99:

The correlation with IQ (causal or not) doesn't explain the increasing epidemic.

I never said it did. I said IQ plays a part. Like many issues it is complicated and there are many factors at play. Some more important than others. I think the most important is what and how much you eat.

Amanon

MikeB4

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#1883018 13-Oct-2017 14:36

Folks on low income often do not have the luxury of being very selective in what they can eat. Their budget means they can usually buy once a pay cycle so food needs to be long lasting. Unfortunately a lot of the healthier options have short shelf life such as fresh veges and fruit. They buy what will last and what they can afford.

kryptonjohn

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#1883019 13-Oct-2017 14:38

They are certainly not 'forced' to eat wrong foods. As discussed there are plenty of cheap and healthy food options. The big issue is they don't taste as good as junk food.

Just don't know how to make better plans and choices, or can't be bothered.

Dulouz

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#1883021 13-Oct-2017 14:40

MikeB4:

Folks on low income often do not have the luxury of being very selective in what they can eat. Their budget means they can usually buy once a pay cycle so food needs to be long lasting. Unfortunately a lot of the healthier options have short shelf life such as fresh veges and fruit. They buy what will last and what they can afford.

Frozen vegetables are cheaper than fresh, last up to 12 months and are just as nutritious. Apples and oranges last ages as well.

Amanon

MikeB4

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#1883022 13-Oct-2017 14:42

Dulouz:

MikeB4:

Folks on low income often do not have the luxury of being very selective in what they can eat. Their budget means they can usually buy once a pay cycle so food needs to be long lasting. Unfortunately a lot of the healthier options have short shelf life such as fresh veges and fruit. They buy what will last and what they can afford.

Frozen vegetables are cheaper than fresh, last up to 12 months and are just as nutritious. Apples and oranges last ages as well.

You assume they can afford a freezer.

Dulouz

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#1883024 13-Oct-2017 14:45

MikeB4:

Dulouz:

MikeB4:

Folks on low income often do not have the luxury of being very selective in what they can eat. Their budget means they can usually buy once a pay cycle so food needs to be long lasting. Unfortunately a lot of the healthier options have short shelf life such as fresh veges and fruit. They buy what will last and what they can afford.

Frozen vegetables are cheaper than fresh, last up to 12 months and are just as nutritious. Apples and oranges last ages as well.

You assume they can afford a freezer.

You're really grasping at straws now.

Amanon

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