2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2472980 28-Apr-2020 19:18

ezbee:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/glenfield-mall-owner-rages-at-na-ve-government-over-retail-restrictions-under-covid-19-alert-level-3.html

"Let's copy the Swedish model, because that worked so well for them" (they currently have ten times the death toll of their immediate neighbour Norway, and in particular the highest number of deaths this century).

Having said that, I can see how it's hurting the couple in the story, poor guys. I don't mean this in a nasty manner but sometimes it's just an unfortunate case of "it sucks to be you" :-(. Sometimes you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Rikkitic

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#2472984 28-Apr-2020 19:24

neb:

sometimes it's just an unfortunate case of "it sucks to be you" :-(.

Especially if you are one of the dead ones.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

GV27

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#2472991 28-Apr-2020 19:42

Both options have costs. The fact that people might (would, really) die if we take a different path doesn't change the reality that people are losing jobs, business owners are losing businesses and in some cases, their own homes with them, and a lot of workers have just had to take a huge hit in earnings in a low-wage economy, with no real timeline on when earnings might return to normal. The social and financial ripple effect of this is huge.

Yes, a loss of life is something we should seek to avoid. But that doesn't mean we should be dog-piling on people who are close to losing everything they have or have to make even smaller pay packets go even further in a high-living cost economy. Their struggles are no less real and the consequences of that need to be acknowledged and understood.

Rikkitic

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#2472994 28-Apr-2020 19:50

I am not dog-piling on anyone. This pandemic and everything about it is an absolute tragedy for all affected, whether through death, loss of livelihood and years of work, shattered dreams, whatever. It is horrible and I feel for everyone who is victimised by this, however that occurs. It is no-one's fault, yet it happens. Sometimes life is just horribly unfair. It sucks. People suffer. Ultimately, they have to find a way to get through it or be overwhelmed. Sometimes that is just the way it is.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

mattwnz

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#2473000 28-Apr-2020 19:58

GV27:

Both options have costs. The fact that people might (would, really) die if we take a different path doesn't change the reality that people are losing jobs, business owners are losing businesses and in some cases, their own homes with them, and a lot of workers have just had to take a huge hit in earnings in a low-wage economy, with no real timeline on when earnings might return to normal. The social and financial ripple effect of this is huge.

Yes, a loss of life is something we should seek to avoid. But that doesn't mean we should be dog-piling on people who are close to losing everything they have or have to make even smaller pay packets go even further in a high-living cost economy. Their struggles are no less real and the consequences of that need to be acknowledged and understood.

Last night on Q&A, they had an American expert on, and they valued the loss of life of not going into lockdown and without restrictions, in money terms, at over $280 billion.

That would be if 60,000 people were to die as per modeling. All people have the same value of about 4.7 million per person, although they thought that value was low, and it could be closer to 7 million.

kingdragonfly

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#2473002 28-Apr-2020 20:00

Turkey: Learning from New Zealand’s “Unite Against COVİD-19” response

Medyascope, Istanbul, Turkey

Turskish reporter Isin Elicin talks to

Helen Clark, former Prime Minister of New Zealand, former Administrator of the United Nations Development Programme
Professor Michael Baker, epidemiologist and professor of Public Health at Otago University.

mattwnz

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#2473007 28-Apr-2020 20:07

debo:

mattwnz: 30-march-2020

... I have reported someone for moving into a new house during the lockdown, but those people are still moving stuff today. I don't believe people are permitted to move house during lockdown. So either the police have given them permission to do this, or they haven't yet followed them up, ...

or it is David Clark moving house and the rules simply don't apply to him.

I just read that story, and it appears most of his house was moved before the lock down by a moving company. The story says that one of the buildings was his office that he was walking between his new house, and the office in his old house which were only a short distance from one another. As he is an essential worker the office in the other house could probably be considered his essential workspace, so IMO I don't think he has done anything wrong.
In the case I reported of someone moving house, they were using a big van and cars to transport things, and we had been told that we can't move house during the lockdown. I understand that was only relaxed in Level 3.

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#2473025 28-Apr-2020 20:34

GV27: business owners are losing businesses and in some cases, their own homes with them...

So where is all this money going? Workers wages are subsidized, IRD is being lenient. Who is NOT being lenient? Who wants their entire pound of flesh, no matter the pain they cause?

But also, I don't understand about businesses closing. Interest rates are extremely low, and look like dropping further. If you had a business that was profitable, surely you would borrow in the expectation of renewed profits rather than shutting it down. You would have a month's worth of expenses to pay back, plus a little interest, but you could spread the expense payment out over a year or more. Not ideal, and you wouldn't have your holiday in Bali this year, but surely better than having no income at all.

Handle9

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#2473028 28-Apr-2020 20:39

frankv:
GV27: business owners are losing businesses and in some cases, their own homes with them...

So where is all this money going? Workers wages are subsidized, IRD is being lenient. Who is NOT being lenient? Who wants their entire pound of flesh, no matter the pain they cause?

But also, I don't understand about businesses closing. Interest rates are extremely low, and look like dropping further. If you had a business that was profitable, surely you would borrow in the expectation of renewed profits rather than shutting it down. You would have a month's worth of expenses to pay back, plus a little interest, but you could spread the expense payment out over a year or more. Not ideal, and you wouldn't have your holiday in Bali this year, but surely better than having no income at all.

It's fairly clear that you have no understanding about how business works and the importance of cashflow.

Businesses rely on both profit and cashflow. If there is no cash moving through the business then the business relays on depleting working capital. This rapidly runs out, regardless of "profitability".

Many businesses are not really profitable but provide decent jobs for owner/operators and their families via a salary.

Would you borrow to keep paying yourself a salary?

freitasm

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#2473053 28-Apr-2020 21:43

The Clark story. He says he moved the week BEFORE lockdown. The Herald headline seems a bit... Clickbait?

frankv

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#2473055 28-Apr-2020 21:46

Handle9: Would you borrow to keep paying yourself a salary?

I've lived off my cash reserves between jobs. And, when redundancy loomed, I arranged a mortgage so that I would have time to get another good job. So, although it's to pay living expenses directly rather than to pay myself a salary to pay living expenses, I think the answer to your question is yes.

It's a short term tactic to overcome a temporary cashflow shortage, not a permanent state. It's precisely what the government does... borrow to pay expenses during tough times, to be paid back in better future times.

scuwp

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#2473062 28-Apr-2020 22:07

freitasm: The Clark story. He says he moved the week BEFORE lockdown. The Herald headline seems a bit... Clickbait?

Surely you are not implying that one of our mainstream media companies, who are "essential" to our livelihood and well being, would stoop so low as to fail to to present a balanced and impartial piece of investigative journalism?

Kicking a man when he is down comes to mind. Stirring muck for headlines.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

Geektastic

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#2473064 28-Apr-2020 22:15

Rikkitic:

I am not dog-piling on anyone. This pandemic and everything about it is an absolute tragedy for all affected, whether through death, loss of livelihood and years of work, shattered dreams, whatever. It is horrible and I feel for everyone who is victimised by this, however that occurs. It is no-one's fault, yet it happens. Sometimes life is just horribly unfair. It sucks. People suffer. Ultimately, they have to find a way to get through it or be overwhelmed. Sometimes that is just the way it is.

As my late father was fond of remarking when I complained about something being difficult at school "Life is hard. Then you die."

Oblivian

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#2473074 28-Apr-2020 22:59

There's a quick short doc on Netflix live today

Coronavirus explained.

mattwnz

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#2473079 28-Apr-2020 23:53

Noticed a number of concerning photos being posted on Twitter tonight outside or near fast food outlets, links to a couple of the posts are below. The first location looks worse than the second, as in the second photo at least the gathering of people looks to be more spread out. But apparently there are other places too that are just as bad when it comes to queues and people congregating outside the place. Infact the Director General did specially state today when discussing his coffee, that people must not congregate outside these food outlets. I think changes are going to be needed to be made fast, else I fear we will be back in level 4 in a week or two.

pic.twitter.com/wvcnopbTMt

pic.twitter.com/U1OMB5fUDU

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