2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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1070 posts

Uber Geek

#2510403 23-Jun-2020 12:12

Just a thought - maybe it's time to get some redundant cruise liners parked up in Auckland Harbour and used as quarantine/managed isolation facilities.

I believe other countries have used the concept as overspill accommodation (just not in a COVID situation).

frankv

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#2510434 23-Jun-2020 13:05

MikeB4:

The vital question is could New Zealand survive another level 4/3 lock down, I believe the answer is very clearly no it could not, it would wreck our economy for decades.

I disagree. The destruction of the economy is questionable... interest rates are, practically speaking, zero, so it's only the principal that needs to be paid back. Unlike the 1980s, when borrowing was potentially ruinous. And large chunks of the economy have been having record sales in May-June. So New Zealand could survive another lockdown; it would just be unpleasant, even painful. And it could survive without tourists. And a wrecked economy doesn't destroy a country... Zimbabwe, for example, still exists.

Those [New Zealanders] currently overseas unless they can prove they have zero option to returning should stay where they are.

So they're expected to take the hit personally to save the country some money?

There is *no* problem with Kiwis returning to NZ, so long as their arrival isolation is managed properly. The same process that wiped out covid-19 in NZ's population will wipe it out in returnees and visitors. It is the mismanagement that is the problem.

tdgeek

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#2510435 23-Jun-2020 13:08

2 cases, one ex India one ex USA . NZ cases, 0

On2or3wheels

195 posts

Master Geek

#2510436 23-Jun-2020 13:13

MikeB4:

I simply do not believe the spin from the Beehive and all its little drones anymore.

But of course you trust the hype & over dramatisation from the media?

MikeB4

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#2510437 23-Jun-2020 13:15

@frankv "I disagree. The destruction of the economy is questionable" if that was a joke I am missing the punchline. A second round of Level 4- Level 3 lockdown would be a knockout blow. We would see widespread business closure, massive increase of unemployment, vastly reduced spending powers which of course causes more economic shrinkage, business closures and unemployment. Then the inevitable inability of the government to finance welfare, health, etc due to the rapidly reducing tax take.

It is not about saving a few dollars its about saving lives and saving our future and future generations.

MikeB4

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#2510438 23-Jun-2020 13:17

On2or3wheels:

But of course you trust the hype & over dramatisation from the media?

No I don't I seldom read or watch NZ media. I take my advice from professionals that I am associated with

GV27

5897 posts

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#2510440 23-Jun-2020 13:18

On2or3wheels:

MikeB4:

I simply do not believe the spin from the Beehive and all its little drones anymore.

But of course you trust the hype & over dramatisation from the media?

The media is applying scrutiny. That's their job.

The alternative was the farcical quarantine and inevitable CT (if it isn't too late already).

I will take 'hype and dramatisation' if it saves lives because we were too busy back-slapping each other over a job well done.

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tdgeek

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#2510447 23-Jun-2020 13:25

GV27:

The media is applying scrutiny. That's their job.

The alternative was the farcical quarantine and inevitable CT (if it isn't too late already).

I will take 'hype and dramatisation' if it saves lives because we were too busy back-slapping each other over a job well done.

Is this scrutiny? https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/2020/06/23/1243845/the-media-needs-to-calm-down

What about when some were wanting L4 to be ended after 2 weeks then L3 too much then get to L2 and L1 now. No one now, wants to talk about that,l thats where the REAL risk was, heaven forbid where we would be. What about the bubbles? Govt and MoH bashed about both of these, thats gone quiet now.

GV27

5897 posts

Uber Geek

#2510449 23-Jun-2020 13:26

MikeB4:

@frankv "I disagree. The destruction of the economy is questionable" if that was a joke I am missing the punchline. A second round of Level 4- Level 3 lockdown would be a knockout blow. We would see widespread business closure, massive increase of unemployment, vastly reduced spending powers which of course causes more economic shrinkage, business closures and unemployment. Then the inevitable inability of the government to finance welfare, health, etc due to the rapidly reducing tax take.

Add in capital flight and brain drain when the borders do inevitably lift and you'll have a country that looks like NZ did thirty years ago instead of a modern civilized first-world country.

Rikkitic

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#2510477 23-Jun-2020 13:35

MikeB4:

No I don't I seldom read or watch NZ media. I take my advice from professionals that I am associated with

Professionals also get things wrong. Otherwise there wouldn't be all this brouhaha over the failings at the border. If the media do their job, they get opinions and evidence from a range of sources. Relying on a couple of family members who happen to have qualifications does not guarantee sufficient or sufficiently broad information.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

GV27

5897 posts

Uber Geek

#2510478 23-Jun-2020 13:35

tdgeek:

Is this scrutiny? https://www.newsroom.co.nz/ideasroom/2020/06/23/1243845/the-media-needs-to-calm-down

Let me put my cynic's hat on:

"It does not serve the country well if it undermines the trust, confidence, compliance and cooperation and ‘kindness’ necessary for New Zealanders to work together against Covid-19."

It does not serve the country well to have a media that is not allowed to do anything but toe the line. It is not the media's job to foster a sense of political unity by not asking why things officials say are happening are not happening.

Forgive me if I am a little reluctant to take the word of a senior Wellington academic on why we should be nicer to the government. Maybe they could ask some people who lost their jobs or worked for severely reduced pay during lockdown what their thoughts about exposing the country to further risk because the media can't ask hard questions, and why they should accept government by slogan which diverges from reality to the extent it could mean we are exposed to another outbreak.

duckDecoy

896 posts

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#2510484 23-Jun-2020 13:39

On2or3wheels:

MikeB4:

I simply do not believe the spin from the Beehive and all its little drones anymore.

But of course you trust the hype & over dramatisation from the media?

No. But I do trust the people who were in isolation and rang the radio stations to detail what they went through first hand. And I trust the doctors aboard the infected cruise ship who documented that 80% of positive cases were comletely asymptomatic. And I trust Sir Skegg who is fuming over how pathetic the isolation procedures were up until a few days ago.

The concerns people here are showing are not because they're raving sheeple who are being led around by their noses by the frothing MSM. They're concerned by the facts as to what was actually happening vs what we were told was happening.

MikeB4

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#2510490 23-Jun-2020 13:44

Rikkitic:

Professionals also get things wrong. Otherwise there wouldn't be all this brouhaha over the failings at the border. If the media do their job, they get opinions and evidence from a range of sources. Relying on a couple of family members who happen to have qualifications does not guarantee sufficient or sufficiently broad information.

Not just a couple of family members.

Wander4821

34 posts

Geek

#2510494 23-Jun-2020 13:47

MikeB4:
@frankv "I disagree. The destruction of the economy is questionable" if that was a joke I am missing the punchline. A second round of Level 4- Level 3 lockdown would be a knockout blow. We would see widespread business closure, massive increase of unemployment, vastly reduced spending powers which of course causes more economic shrinkage, business closures and unemployment. Then the inevitable inability of the government to finance welfare, health, etc due to the rapidly reducing tax take.

It is not about saving a few dollars its about saving lives and saving our future and future generations.

You don't really need to go to either extreme, either of closing the borders entirely or opening them to a heavy extent. Positive cases will continue to appear from arrivals, though as long as they go through quarantine and get tested multiple times there shouldn't be much of a risk. Ultimately heads will roll, and the recent mess up will blow over. Long term NZ will still need to find a compromise over safety and growing the economy, whilst having at minimum a partially closed border.

On2or3wheels

195 posts

Master Geek

#2510515 23-Jun-2020 13:56

Of course we need the media scrutiny, but too often facts are left out & things are blown out of proportion to almost deliberately get people angry & cause a frenzy.

Often in the daily media briefing the reasons for things are explained that don't make there way into a story for instance.

Today Dr Ashley said they can't find any proof of the homeless man in the Hotel & called it a myth. Surely he would be on camera if he was really there. The media loved talking this one up.

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