2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2511660 24-Jun-2020 18:56

Tennis tournament organised by morons known for their "alternative" views infects both of them plus other players with COVID

The pair have publicly stated their opposition to vaccinations, instead advocating for natural healing. Jelena also once posted an Instagram video suggesting she supports a false but prominent conspiracy theory that 5G is partly to blame for coronavirus.

Ben Rothenberg of The New York Times said the tennis star's "scepticism of science" no doubt contributed to his decision to push forward with the tournament during a global pandemic.

"I think that Djokovic's health opinions and views are probably a part of this; he has been sceptical about a vaccine," he told OTB Sports.

"He has brought all kinds of weird pseudoscience people on his channels, bringing on all kinds of strange gurus to talk about changing water with positive thinking and things like that.

"The scepticism of science did him no favours here."

He added: "When he talks about veganism and meditation, that is completely fine and is his prerogative to do. When he starts preaching more things that could be misleading and dangerous to people … is not a positive thing to be doing with his platform."

Quite frankly people like that should do the world a favour....

Oblivian

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#2511665 24-Jun-2020 19:04

lxsw20:

If you're coming home now it's probably because your life has been turned upside down wherever you were living before. Then being trapped in a room doesn't sound like fun to me. Isolation isn't a holiday, it's a way to keep people safe.

Those saying why didn't everyone just come home when the govt said so. Possibly don't understand the complexities of just picking up your life and moving to the otherside of the world, isn't something you can do on a whim.

First portion is exactly what we're getting at. Doing it at home here for a few weeks wasn't fun either. But we all did it. See all those news stories about individuals who didn't cope well? nope. We just did it, like it or lump it.

But all of a sudden something grants those who now are, a national voice about their individual experience once back for us to all hear about. Should be a non-event. Or story over breakfast once back with friends. But noooo - Let's put that person on a pedestal and make it a headline!

Whim or otherwise. Context wasn't on the specific timeframe or complexities, but the information given during those warnings about getting back. What to expect. And mentally prepare or plan for.

frankv

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#2511674 24-Jun-2020 19:18

mattwnz: But the proportion is only going to increase over time,

Why? It stopped increasing in NZ, and a number of other countries.

and one of NZs top experts suggest 4 billion people eventually will get it, which is over 50% of the world population. 10's of millions could also die.

Actually, I believe he said that 4 billion *could* get it. And I believe the 4B figure was derived from 50% of the world's population, not the other way round. And the 50% is a WAG for what is needed for herd immunity. So, if we're going to rely on herd immunity to stop the disease, we have to get to 50% infection rate, and that means 4B infections. Which in turn means 40M deaths, since fatality rate is about 1%.

[quoted]
In the US they are planning on living with it, and although a lot of stores and places have been locked down since march, and still closed, they are beginning to open up. [/quoted]

Which IMO shows how much better NZ is than the US. The US is reaping the whirlwind of its capitalist seeds. An inadequate social welfare system sees people *forced* to work, despite the risks. Good health care is beyond the reach of a large chunk of the population. Poor labour laws allow the workers to be screwed over by avaricious employers and fired at the drop of a hat. The political system has been in the pocket of the wealthy for decades. Under these circumstances, many people simply won't obey any lockdown orders. And the every man for himself attitude means the weak and vulnerable get shafted, yet again. In this case, the old and frail will die in their millions.

mattwnz

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#2511692 24-Jun-2020 19:45

frankv:

Why? It stopped increasing in NZ, and a number of other countries.

But how many countries are doing the elimination approach like NZ, or can even afford to, with a significant lockdown approach to starve the virus? Only a handful seem to be doing it/ done it. It is a huge cost on the economy. Australia's Victoria is now a problem, with 'significant community' transmission not sure if it has been made worse with the rallies they have had in Oz. But can't now see a NZ Oz bubble for some time, unless it is restrict to a few states, and those states are isolated. The UK are opening things up, but when cases increase again, they will likely then have to go retreat.

If people are only immune for 6 months, or a year, then people will just keep catching it, like a cold every year. So some countries may get to a level of herd immunity, for it to then mutate. So if it doesn't kill you one year, it may do so the next. I don't even know if it would be seasonal. There are just too many unknowns.

ezbee

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#2511696 24-Jun-2020 19:48

Look at what its like in India , Pakistan UK, USA , Nah I would not swap to that from Covid Hotel here.
A Hotel under lockdown because of a case is only a great danger to you if you were doing lots of room to room partying , smoking and socializing.
Keep to yourself on the plane and bus and hotel, and your chances are likely very low.
At least here you have a very unstressed hospital system, as a NZ citizen its all free too, the complete care package, and medical.

Maybe we need an instructional video for everyone on these flights.
It can outline facts on what sacrifices many NZers made while they were away.
Deathbeds not visited, Funerals, even Births not attended or celebrated , no MCDonalds etc, no Travel, no Easter Holiday/Shopping and such.
On top of those made redundant, business closed, worries about debt and how they will pay rent.

So naturally your fellow citizens have a 'right' to expect that you will take your 14 Day isolation 'at their expense', seriously.
Don't expect sympathy for any over-entitled expectations.

Now its your turn.

Plus I would be inclined to remind people in initial orientation video in the plane, and the arrival procedure video.
There is an average of 2 cases coming in each day, probably more as time goes on , so so don't get cuddly with your fellow passengers.
Also going through baggage claim, immigration, customs with everyone else, and at the hotel during your stay.
I presume duty free is closed.

Be Kind and Carry on Isolating, its only 14 Days.

Edit, One day I will learn to write in sentences , but time is running out.

tdgeek

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#2511724 24-Jun-2020 20:33

mattwnz:

But how many countries are doing the elimination approach like NZ, or can even afford to, with a significant lockdown approach to starve the virus? Only a handful seem to be doing it/ done it. It is a huge cost on the economy. Australia's Victoria is now a problem, with 'significant community' transmission not sure if it has been made worse with the rallies they have had in Oz. But can't now see a NZ Oz bubble for some time, unless it is restrict to a few states, and those states are isolated. The UK are opening things up, but when cases increase again, they will likely then have to go retreat.

I think you will find that our lockdown was the cheapest option. One hit, then its gone. Retail is at 2019 levels now. The significant lockdown, but also the cheapest, approach avoids the economy being thrashed for months if not years as we see elsewhere.

mattwnz

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#2511815 24-Jun-2020 21:54

tdgeek:

mattwnz:

But how many countries are doing the elimination approach like NZ, or can even afford to, with a significant lockdown approach to starve the virus? Only a handful seem to be doing it/ done it. It is a huge cost on the economy. Australia's Victoria is now a problem, with 'significant community' transmission not sure if it has been made worse with the rallies they have had in Oz. But can't now see a NZ Oz bubble for some time, unless it is restrict to a few states, and those states are isolated. The UK are opening things up, but when cases increase again, they will likely then have to go retreat.

I think you will find that our lockdown was the cheapest option. One hit, then its gone. Retail is at 2019 levels now. The significant lockdown, but also the cheapest, approach avoids the economy being thrashed for months if not years as we see elsewhere.

But it only worked and was probably the cheapest option for NZ, because we did it relatively early in the cycle, before the virus got widespread community transmission occurring. If we had waited much longer, then it may not have worked, or we may have had to be in lockdown even longer.

Australia are now counting the cost in Victoria, but not doing a 'level 4' lockdown like NZ. IMO they could have also eliminated it to, if that was their national policy. Lucky for them, they do have some states that have effective eliminated it, but I understand their PM wants to open the borders to get teh countries economy movig again. But living with the virus, and running a business will be crippling to many businesses, due to all the restriction and extra care required.

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tdgeek

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#2511899 25-Jun-2020 07:55

mattwnz:

But it only worked and was probably the cheapest option for NZ, because we did it relatively early in the cycle, before the virus got widespread community transmission occurring. If we had waited much longer, then it may not have worked, or we may have had to be in lockdown even longer.

Australia are now counting the cost in Victoria, but not doing a 'level 4' lockdown like NZ. IMO they could have also eliminated it to, if that was their national policy. Lucky for them, they do have some states that have effective eliminated it, but I understand their PM wants to open the borders to get teh countries economy movig again. But living with the virus, and running a business will be crippling to many businesses, due to all the restriction and extra care required.

Not sure of your point, you are disagreeing "But", but actually agreeing. A one harsh hit lockdown worked. Note that the Opposition said it was too late. Note that they also wanted out of Level 4 after 2 weeks, out of L3, out of L2. Fortunately sanity and conservatism ruled, otherwise we would be fighting CT while businesses trade openly. Then there is the bubble that we wanted weeks ago for the economy and tourism. Bullet dodged.

ockel

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#2511906 25-Jun-2020 08:12

tdgeek:

I think you will find that our lockdown was the cheapest option. One hit, then its gone. Retail is at 2019 levels now. The significant lockdown, but also the cheapest, approach avoids the economy being thrashed for months if not years as we see elsewhere.

Can I query the source of your data? Stats NZ has electronic transctions data with retail sales in May 2020 being 6% lower than May 2019. And non-retail sales (services and other non-retail) being 13% lower (or $1bn) than May 2019.

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tdgeek

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#2511911 25-Jun-2020 08:19

ockel:

tdgeek:

I think you will find that our lockdown was the cheapest option. One hit, then its gone. Retail is at 2019 levels now. The significant lockdown, but also the cheapest, approach avoids the economy being thrashed for months if not years as we see elsewhere.

Can I query the source of your data? Stats NZ has electronic transctions data with retail sales in May 2020 being 6% lower than May 2019. And non-retail sales (services and other non-retail) being 13% lower (or $1bn) than May 2019.

Don't have the source, it was an article by an economist, not Shamubeel, that stated that retail was 2% down on last May. About a week ago. That excluded direct tourist retail, but included indirect retail, offset by the sales bump as people spent up the pent up demand over the lockdown. Yes, its not exact, but the point was we aren't in a slump, the economy is very active. Your figures would include the direct tourism losses.

GV27

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#2511912 25-Jun-2020 08:21

tdgeek:

Fortunately sanity and conservatism ruled

It didn't though. We were still talking about holding mass gatherings like Pacifica and the March 15th memorial services and only canceled them at the 11th hour - after which the bulk of the people travelling for the sake of them had already traveled. The 'hard and early' thing has been picked apart and doesn't hold water anymore.

ockel

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#2511918 25-Jun-2020 08:29

tdgeek:

ockel:

Can I query the source of your data? Stats NZ has electronic transctions data with retail sales in May 2020 being 6% lower than May 2019. And non-retail sales (services and other non-retail) being 13% lower (or $1bn) than May 2019.

Don't have the source, it was an article by an economist, not Shamubeel, that stated that retail was 2% down on last May. About a week ago. That excluded direct tourist retail, but included indirect retail, offset by the sales bump as people spent up the pent up demand over the lockdown. Yes, its not exact, but the point was we aren't in a slump, the economy is very active. Your figures would include the direct tourism losses.

Perhaps you were referring to Paymarks stats, like the Consumer Dashboard, which is supposed to be a more real-time measure. As it accounts for only 70% of the EFTPOS terminals its a data point but can be wildly inaccurate compared to the measure statistics.

Even Stats NZ's electronic transactions data is only a proxy for the Retail Trade Survey which is only released quarterly. If you're going to base the idea on excluding direct tourist retail then you're totally resetting the base retail spend at being significantly lower for the next while? I'm sure the retailers that have to live with a 6-10% lower total retail spend will take cold comfort that we're back at 2019 levels.

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#2511920 25-Jun-2020 08:32

People keep quibbling about this but we are still one of the few countries with low or no community transmission so our hopeless, incompetent, mendacious, fairyland government must have done something right. Sure, thousands of cases could suddenly erupt in a week or two. I doubt it.

The ones in charge have made mistakes and done things wrong. No question. But the big things they appear to have done right. I guess giving them any credit for that is just a bridge too far for some.

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tdgeek

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#2511961 25-Jun-2020 08:36

GV27:

tdgeek:

Fortunately sanity and conservatism ruled

It didn't though. We were still talking about holding mass gatherings like Pacifica and the March 15th memorial services and only canceled them at the 11th hour - after which the bulk of the people travelling for the sake of them had already traveled. The 'hard and early' thing has been picked apart and doesn't hold water anymore.

Geez. How does get out of Level 4 after 2 weeks sound? Then quickly dump Level3 its killing our economy, then lets get to Level 1 now. Great, now we can enjoy the travel bubble we started a few weeks ago. We would be screwed as would the economy.

If you want to nit pick when every post is politically motivated thats fine, if you feel that someone else would have got everything perfect thats fine. No mater who ran this show it was and is tough. But we didnt open up the economy after 14 days nor the travel bubble a few weeks ago, so here we are, in a good place. Thats a fact.

tdgeek

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#2511964 25-Jun-2020 08:40

ockel:

Perhaps you were referring to Paymarks stats, like the Consumer Dashboard, which is supposed to be a more real-time measure. As it accounts for only 70% of the EFTPOS terminals its a data point but can be wildly inaccurate compared to the measure statistics.

Even Stats NZ's electronic transactions data is only a proxy for the Retail Trade Survey which is only released quarterly. If you're going to base the idea on excluding direct tourist retail then you're totally resetting the base retail spend at being significantly lower for the next while? I'm sure the retailers that have to live with a 6-10% lower total retail spend will take cold comfort that we're back at 2019 levels.

For enough, I didnt do any more than read it, there was no thread here talking about the economy in any detail. The inference was that although tourism is obviously an issue, that can't be solved right now, but elsewhere its tracking well on average, and yes some sectors are below average some above.

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