2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2550480 27-Aug-2020 09:12

Worth a read

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122567682/caronavirus-why-covid19-quarantine-is-infinitely-better-and-worse-than-i-expected

Technofreak

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#2550481 27-Aug-2020 09:13

I understand that the family at the centre of the present cluster and no doubt some others as well have been or were placed into MIQ when this wasn't the case for infected people in the last lock down. Why this time and have all cases within the cluster been placed into MIQ?

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trig42

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#2550487 27-Aug-2020 09:22

Technofreak:

I understand that the family at the centre of the present cluster and no doubt some others as well have been or were placed into MIQ when this wasn't the case for infected people in the last lock down. Why this time and have all cases within the cluster been placed into MIQ?

I think because they can (they have the facilities and staff to do it), and yes, most of the people (and their close family contacts) are in MIQ (Jet Park). I think last I heard there are about 140 people in Jet Park from this community outbreak (so, infected people and their families).

There are some isolating at home, but under strict conditions (security on-site 24/7).

Fred99

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#2550493 27-Aug-2020 09:33

Technofreak:

I understand that the family at the centre of the present cluster and no doubt some others as well have been or were placed into MIQ when this wasn't the case for infected people in the last lock down. Why this time and have all cases within the cluster been placed into MIQ?

Because isolation to prevent spread within a group is difficult if the group is large and living in a home where preventing spread to other family members is impractical, having the option of MIQ saves lives. The only person I know who has had Covid in NZ isolated at home (many months ago - at the start of lockdown #1) until testing negative. None of the family caught it. Living with a small family in an expansive mansion makes a big difference if you want to prevent spread within families. WRT to the present cluster, the answer to your question should be obvious - but throw in that over those months, much has been learned.

MikeB4

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#2550511 27-Aug-2020 09:58

tdgeek:

Those people arent the problem, the many that don't are, and who ruin it for those you quoted and the rest of us. This began on day one of our lockdown and never stopped. I dont see a need to report those that comply, most of us have as we are expected to. The team of 5 million has been frequently recognised

The emphasis on an alleged low rate of noncompliance gives to impression it is widespread. The PM has referred often to the team of 5 million but seldom the media. It is even evident in this thread with folks banging on about noncompliance etc. Yes there is some noncompliance but it is very small in comparison to the compliance rates. There has been no community transmission outside the known clusters in Auckland and neighboring areas and this goes to show that compliance is working.

An example of what would never get coverage is the company my wife works for has closed its offices and all staff including contact centre are working from home. All face to face meetings are banned and this will stay in place for the foreseeable future.

If one were to read this thread from start to finish the resulting depression would be profound.

freitasm

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#2550514 27-Aug-2020 09:59

A couple of people have been blocked from posting on this thread. Can everyone go back to discuss novel coronavirus and the covid-19 pandemic - leave your politics at the door.

tdgeek

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#2550517 27-Aug-2020 10:16

MikeB4:

The emphasis on an alleged low rate of noncompliance gives to impression it is widespread. The PM has referred often to the team of 5 million but seldom the media. It is even evident in this threads with folks banging on about noncompliance etc. Yes there is some noncompliance but it is very small in comparison to the compliance rates. There house been no community transmission outside the known clusters in Auckland and neighboring areas and this goes to show that compliance is working.

An example of what would never get coverage is the company my wife works for has closed its offices and all staff including contact centre are working from home. All face to face meetings are banned and this will stay in place for the foreseeable future.

If one were to read this thread from start to finish the resulting depression would be profound.

Fair enough, Mike. I've always been positive, and still are. However, I do feel that compliance now is an issue. We have test fatigue, we also have Covid fatigue, this is common globally also. IMHO March 27th here was a call to arms by all of us, and we did wonderully, despite the newsworthy but small in number flouters. I just feel this is a more material issue now than then, and Level 3 adds to that, so this cluster will take time, unlike last time when the two incubation periods were our friend.

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dejadeadnz

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#2550551 27-Aug-2020 10:53

MikeB4:

The emphasis on an alleged low rate of noncompliance gives to impression it is widespread. The PM has referred often to the team of 5 million but seldom the media. It is even evident in this thread with folks banging on about noncompliance etc. Yes there is some noncompliance but it is very small in comparison to the compliance rates. There has been no community transmission outside the known clusters in Auckland and neighboring areas and this goes to show that compliance is working.

I did promise myself that I would stay away from this thread and will offer this small "contribution".

What must be emphasised though is that it doesn't take much of for there to be a disaster. In lieu of perhaps over-negative messaging around the actual number of non-compliance (which is generally low), what might have have been helpful is very severe penalties being made available and consistently handed out to the violators to enforce the importance of compliance.

Technofreak:

As far as using the Bill of Right is concerned that's just hiding behind an argument that is nonsense. We go far to far to "accommodate" these self important people. Besides sticking a swap up someones nose is hardly a medical procedure. For anyone in MIQ to object to the swab test is just being bloody minded or arrogant.

I will honour the site owner's request not to get this thread back into legalities/politics but doing this quickly as a PSA. You actually replied to a piece of FUD, which I reported. Whatever one thinks of whether tests should have been compulsory, as I've shown here, the original underlying argument is simply not correct and is obviously so once anyone properly reads the law concerned. But I am not going to respond further on this as it's off-topic for the thread.

trig42

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#2550553 27-Aug-2020 10:55

IMO, the low rates of testing being seen this week are because all those that felt they needed a test in the previous two weeks have now got one.

Most of us (and I'd say it's well over 95%) are playing by the rules.

I haven't left my property except for a trip tot he supermarket in the past 2+ weeks. When I go out, I take a mask, and most others in the supermarket also have face coverings.

I see no need for me to be tested. I've followed the rules, I have no symptoms. There must be a lot like me.

Sure there is lockdown fatigue (I am over it, and don't know how I'd feel about another one, especially if it ruins Christmas - this one has ruined my 15 year Wedding anniversary, and an event with my family). My suspicion, and opinion, is that we won't see another level 3 lockdown. The country is out of money, and after the election, the political will to do it may not be there. Hopefully, we have bought ourselves enough time with the original lockdown, and now this Auckland one, for a vaccine or treatment to come along without causing massive stress on hospitals and loss of life. Summer is coming, which will hopefully help too.

There is testing fatigue too - why be tested if you're at home and 'isolated'?

freitasm

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#2550564 27-Aug-2020 10:59

I was tested once since the beginning of the pandemic, while my wife was tested twice.

I don't generally leave the house now (WFH since late last year, then made redundant so running Geekzone full time for now). I do visit supermarkets, perhaps twice a week. Wife still working, daughter at school. I'd say we are low to medium risk (living in Wellington, wife works at a school, only one adult actively out and about most of the times).

A particular family profile but when we talk about millions of people, not everyone needs to be tested all the time - only those with symptoms, direct contact, specific regions, etc.

Not sure about test fatigue yet. Or are we talking about those people in MIQ who are tired of being tested (twice) during their 14-day hotel stay for the sake of the other five million?

MikeB4

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#2550573 27-Aug-2020 11:15

@dejadeadnz I absolutely agree that non compliance needs to be dealt with severely as it is a crime against the nation. Moreover it must also be seen to be dealt with severely to deter those in society that seem to have the notion that all rules are options and guidelines only. It only needs one lid off a petri dish to compromise the entire lab or nation.

Scott3

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#2550576 27-Aug-2020 11:23

Technofreak:

I understand that the family at the centre of the present cluster and no doubt some others as well have been or were placed into MIQ when this wasn't the case for infected people in the last lock down. Why this time and have all cases within the cluster been placed into MIQ?

We have identified having positive cases isolate at home as a major failing of our first wave. (essentially despite best efforts the virus spread within the household

This shouldn't be too much of a surprise, the same failing was found in Wuhan prior to our first outbreak.

In terms of why this time. We now have the Jetpark facility set up to manage positive cases who do not require hospital level care. Also the lower number of positive cases is a lot easier to accommodate. Spinning up properly managed quarantine facilities for 1000+ people is not something that can be done in a week or two.

Last time round there was genuine concern that our hospitals would become overloaded with people requiring hospital level care (especially ventilated ICU care). Currently there is no concern of that, hence it is more acceptable to pull medical staff from the hospital system to send to jetpark etc.

Should note that the way that Wuhan ended up doing quarantine was never going to be acceptable in NZ. They had official's going door to door, requiring everybody to report for a temperature scan. Everybody with an elevated temperature was dragged and put in a metal box on the back of a ute. They were then taken to a sports stadium set with hundreds of beds in the open. This approach ment those who had fevor for non covid-19 related reasons were essentially doomed to catch the virus, and as such people fought like their lives depended on it when getting dragged away from their homes.

MikeB4

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#2550581 27-Aug-2020 11:31

freitasm:

I was tested once since the beginning of the pandemic, while my wife was tested twice.

I don't generally leave the house now (WFH since late last year, then made redundant so running Geekzone full time for now). I do visit supermarkets, perhaps twice a week. Wife still working, daughter at school. I'd say we are low to medium risk (living in Wellington, wife works at a school, only one adult actively out and about most of the times).

A particular family profile but when we talk about millions of people, not everyone needs to be tested all the time - only those with symptoms, direct contact, specific regions, etc.

Not sure about test fatigue yet. Or are we talking about those people in MIQ who are tired of being tested (twice) during their 14-day hotel stay for the sake of the other five million?

I have been to some degree self isolating since early March. I am shopping online and avoiding Malls and Restaurants. We have strict rules on folks entering our home. My wife is working from home and is not doing any face to face meetings something she finds very difficult. Oddly she had the best quarter for sales during lockdown and exceeded her targets by over 300%. I have been tested once which was not pleasant as it is very difficult mostly impossible for me to tilt my head back. Thankfully no one in my family in NZ or abroad have been infected.

Geektastic

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#2550636 27-Aug-2020 11:58

dejadeadnz:

What must be emphasised though is that it doesn't take much of for there to be a disaster. In lieu of perhaps over-negative messaging around the actual number of non-compliance (which is generally low), what might have have been helpful is very severe penalties being made available and consistently handed out to the violators to enforce the importance of compliance.

This.

ezbee

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#2550637 27-Aug-2020 12:01

You can't always get what you want, as the song goes ( But you will want more what you can't get ).
I'm sure there is much that is confirmed about human condition in all this.
Shed loads of toilet paper and flour. Vermin never had it so good.

Testing a paradox of either impossibly long queues, or well , seems now you can get done in 30min already.
Somewhat more ironic than the knives and spoons song , we should have three cases on a bus that gets stuck for an hour on the last morning before level 3. Mainly as a result of panic queue at a testing station along the route.

However we are looking at a different groups now and its a bit harder to get news out on where these popups are etc.
They may be more disconnected from some media, busy working multiple shifts or the practicalities of being in tenuous living conditions.
Social groups differ , variety of languages ,and sources of information and news.
There is also the aspect of ct, conspiracies, government certainly needs to up the 'local' media messaging advertising budget.
Places like Taiwan , Singapore ran and run extensive messaging campaigns , its not spreading fear its giving people 'empowerment' on how to fight.

Hopefully things will pick up as news gets out about how handy these test centers are, you can do it between a shift,
its not the horror show of a week ago.

I am thankful to all those that did get tested, saved us from a Melbourne scale crisis, another week or two of silent spread.

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