Lime scooters

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#2185870 23-Feb-2019 14:47

NzBeagle: Has anyone here experienced this 'glitch'? As someone mentioned on here previously, the brakes are pretty average, I don't understand how you could get thrown as a result. Is it a different brake being activated than the handlebar lever??

Reports suggest the front wheels are locking up which would be different to brakes being applied as I imagine the brakes would be on the back wheel. I've not had a close look at one so can't comment on the actual mechanisms involved.

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#2185911 23-Feb-2019 16:03

NzBeagle: Has anyone here experienced this 'glitch'? As someone mentioned on here previously, the brakes are pretty average, I don't understand how you could get thrown as a result. Is it a different brake being activated than the handlebar lever??

most likely the motor locking up. i doubt it has a clutch and/or a freewheel

tdgeek

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#2185934 23-Feb-2019 17:32

networkn:

gzt:
Stuff: Lime e-scooters have been pulled from Auckland streets for now due to a software glitch that causes the wheels to lock up.

Auckland Council chief operating officer Dean Kimpton confirmed on Friday that Auckland Council and Auckland Transport had decided to "temporarily suspend" the e-scooter trial in the region due to safety concerns.

The suspension would be reviewed on Monday.

This surprises me Lime did not make the decision themselves earlier.

Lime don't strike me as the most ethically concerned group. I get the feeling safety is lower on their priority list than say.. Money... :)

It's the Uber of Scooters :)

You can add Councils and NZTA to that list. With all the PC these days, then we have scooters go for it galore.

tdgeek

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#2185936 23-Feb-2019 17:34

logo:

tdgeek:

I want these measures

1. Helmets

2. Footpath is allowed at a low speed, not sure yet what that is, maybe 10k thats only 2 x walking speed. Everyone else has right of way

3. Cycle lane is ok

4. Road is ok

MUST be enforced.

2. There are footpaths and there are footpaths. 10kmph is ok in the CBD crowded with pedestrians of if the footpaths are poor quality. 10kmph is painfully slow on long, empty stretches of wide footpaths. 18km would be my pick but that's not far off 20km and at 20km you're not far off 25km which is the max anyway (without circumventing these limits).

It's all relatively, sometimes 15km feels really fast, other times 25km is still too slow. And that also applies to the observer so imagine how you would enforce the speed limits - you can't use judgement. Radar guns?

Radar guns, no. Common sense yes

Who cares if its fast or slow, footpaths are for foots

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#2185937 23-Feb-2019 17:36

afe66: If they are going to put a speed limit on the scooters in name of safety, I look forward to the speed limiters being put on car too.

Legal limits 100km so limit top speed of cars to 100km. Wont happen though.

I guess that depends on the propensity to offend.

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#2186009 23-Feb-2019 18:41

tdgeek:

Radar guns, no. Common sense yes

My point exactly - let people use common sense in judging what is a safe speed rather than putting a limit which can't be enforced anyway (can the police pull you over if you were driving a car and give you a ticket based on how fast they think you were going?)

tdgeek:

Who cares if its fast or slow, footpaths are for foots

and skateboards, longboards, inline skates, scooters (kick, mobility or e), bicycles with wheels smaller than 355mm

hot dogs also don't contain dog

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#2186012 23-Feb-2019 18:49

logo:

tdgeek:

Radar guns, no. Common sense yes

My point exactly - let people use common sense in judging what is a safe speed rather than putting a limit which can't be enforced anyway (can the police pull you over if you were driving a car and give you a ticket based on how fast they think you were going?)

tdgeek:

Who cares if its fast or slow, footpaths are for foots

and skateboards, longboards, inline skates, scooters (kick, mobility or e), bicycles with wheels smaller than 355mm

I didn't imply use common sense and no speeds. Use a commons sense speed, not your 25k is too slow.

Use cycles as a base point. Do we have excessive ACC issues caused by skateboards, longboards, inline skates, on footpaths? Or by cycles on roads or cycleways? NO

So the fact is SOME people are dicks. So if said dick rolled a grandma and cause taxpayers $85,000 per year care, and they were billed, the world will end.

The other modes of transport have a fairly low dick ratio

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mattwnz

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#2186100 23-Feb-2019 23:32

This annoys me. https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/110815486/lime-calls-for-escooter-riders-support-with-app-campaign-after-auckland-council-ban#comments

If they want them back on the road, all they have to prove they are safe and the issues fixed, so totally in their own hands. The council have followed common sense IMO. Asking their customers to contact the councilors, so they get their inboxes filled with emails is poor form IMO, and creates unnecessary stress and time-wasting for the councilors and council staff, and wasting council resources (ratepayers are paying for this) when they have a lot of more important things to do. Are they trying to get the council offside with them ? And while they are about it, maybe donating half a million to cover what taxpayers have spent on ACC injuries wouldn't go astray. From the comments, it looks like a lot of NZers are getting fed up by it.

BlakJak

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#2186101 23-Feb-2019 23:39

I hope someone can teach the Auckland City Councillors how to use message search and/or message filters. :S

The PR campaign is a bit of a stunt by Lime however. Have they even tried to address the safety concerns to assuage the council?

I find Lime very convenient as a concept, but I'd like some assurance that the device isn't going to lock up and cause an accident.

No signature to see here, move along...

mattwnz

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#2186110 24-Feb-2019 00:51

BlakJak: I hope someone can teach the Auckland City Councillors how to use message search and/or message filters. :S The PR campaign is a bit of a stunt by Lime however. Have they even tried to address the safety concerns to assuage the council? I find Lime very convenient as a concept, but I'd like some assurance that the device isn't going to lock up and cause an accident.

I think as a concept they are good, and am all for clean green transport like this. I even like disruptive business models like this that create competition. But safety is paramount. I think that perhaps something what has larger wheels that can handle our pavements and roads better and provide more control with wider handle bars that provide more torque on the steering column could be better. Something more e-bike like. Supposedly there is a newer generation model they have rolled out overseas, so I do wonder why we don't have the new model here.

landcruiserguy

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#2186121 24-Feb-2019 06:20

tdgeek:

I didn't imply use common sense and no speeds. Use a commons sense speed, not your 25k is too slow.

Use cycles as a base point. Do we have excessive ACC issues caused by skateboards, longboards, inline skates, on footpaths? Or by cycles on roads or cycleways? NO

So the fact is SOME people are dicks. So if said dick rolled a grandma and cause taxpayers $85,000 per year care, and they were billed, the world will end.

The other modes of transport have a fairly low dick ratio

Wot? cycles have a super high dick ratio. Unfit people falling off costing ACC millions, people on footpaths getting hit by them, packs of weekend wheeled warriors riding three abreast on the road, sweaty overweight middle aged blokes stinking up cafes drinking their soy decafe latte on sunday morning. I am not arguing that people should be allowed to ride bikes, just that it's no different to electric scooters, it's just more established.

Skateboards? They have never caused any issues. Yeah right.

alasta

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#2186216 24-Feb-2019 10:34

This whole incident really highlights my long standing concerns around applying the silicone valley design philosophy in a safety critical environment. The idea of "let's just have a go and if it doesn't work then we'll issue a software update" is fine for a trivial iPhone app, but not for this type of product or service.

Yes, I know that modern cars and aircraft are also largely controlled by software but traditional manufacturers of those products are not software companies and therefore have a different attitude to quality control across both their hardware and software.

tdgeek

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#2186228 24-Feb-2019 10:58

landcruiserguy:

tdgeek:

I didn't imply use common sense and no speeds. Use a commons sense speed, not your 25k is too slow.

Use cycles as a base point. Do we have excessive ACC issues caused by skateboards, longboards, inline skates, on footpaths? Or by cycles on roads or cycleways? NO

So the fact is SOME people are dicks. So if said dick rolled a grandma and cause taxpayers $85,000 per year care, and they were billed, the world will end.

The other modes of transport have a fairly low dick ratio

Wot? cycles have a super high dick ratio. Unfit people falling off costing ACC millions, people on footpaths getting hit by them, packs of weekend wheeled warriors riding three abreast on the road, sweaty overweight middle aged blokes stinking up cafes drinking their soy decafe latte on sunday morning. I am not arguing that people should be allowed to ride bikes, just that it's no different to electric scooters, it's just more established.

Skateboards? They have never caused any issues. Yeah right.

I drive a bit, I see plenty of cycles, I dont see an issue. I don't say there are NO issue nor did I say skateboards have NO issues. Stuff all Limes in NZ test they occupy the news daily. Deduct the clickbait factor and the leftover is a problem. They are faster, harder to ride compared to most other devices, and the law decided to bypass them.

jonathan18

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#2186238 24-Feb-2019 11:30

tdgeek:

I drive a bit, I see plenty of cycles, I dont see an issue. I don't say there are NO issue nor did I say skateboards have NO issues. Stuff all Limes in NZ test they occupy the news daily. Deduct the clickbait factor and the leftover is a problem. They are faster, harder to ride compared to most other devices, and the law decided to bypass them.

Many posts here, including this, keep on stating that e-scooters are 'faster' than bikes, but that's a very big generalisation. Generally, I find going at 27kmh on a scooter puts me in the middle of the pack in relation to the speed of cyclists.

I think it's more the relativity of the speed depending on whether it's on a footpath or road - 25-30kmh is too fast for anything on the footpaths, and you're a damn fool to be travelling at this speed, whether it be risking hitting someone else or risking your own life (cars coming out of driveways, footpath damage etc). I feel FAR safer on the road than the footpath, especially at speed.

I'm also not sure what it is about scooters that make them 'harder to ride compared to most other devices'. A bike is far more difficult. And as for riding a skateboard? That's something I assume I'll never manage to do (well) before I die, yet biking and scooters are no issue!

It's not that I disagree that central government has dropped the ball in managing e-scooters properly, it's just I feel there are so many inaccurate generalisations spouted that don't help in sorting the wheat from the chaff...

tdgeek

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#2186244 24-Feb-2019 11:45

jonathan18:

tdgeek:

I drive a bit, I see plenty of cycles, I dont see an issue. I don't say there are NO issue nor did I say skateboards have NO issues. Stuff all Limes in NZ test they occupy the news daily. Deduct the clickbait factor and the leftover is a problem. They are faster, harder to ride compared to most other devices, and the law decided to bypass them.

Many posts here, including this, keep on stating that e-scooters are 'faster' than bikes, but that's a very big generalisation. Generally, I find going at 27kmh on a scooter puts me in the middle of the pack in relation to the speed of cyclists.

I think it's more the relativity of the speed depending on whether it's on a footpath or road - 25-30kmh is too fast for anything on the footpaths, and you're a damn fool to be travelling at this speed, whether it be risking hitting someone else or risking your own life (cars coming out of driveways, footpath damage etc). I feel FAR safer on the road than the footpath, especially at speed.

I'm also not sure what it is about scooters that make them 'harder to ride compared to most other devices'. A bike is far more difficult. And as for riding a skateboard? That's something I assume I'll never manage to do (well) before I die, yet biking and scooters are no issue!

It's not that I disagree that central government has dropped the ball in managing e-scooters properly, it's just I feel there are so many inaccurate generalisations spouted that don't help in sorting the wheat from the chaff...

When I see, or type faster, yes I realise that. Forgetting spandex clad cyclists on $8000 cycles, a scooter can go to max speed easily, a standard to good cyclist its not easy, or quick, or sustainable.

Ive ridden motorcycles, motor scooters, bicycles and scooters. Bicycle is easy as is a motorcycle, they are easy to balance. I rode a motor scooter twice, not easy for a first timer, the centre of balance is all over the place. Yes, you will get used to it, but I was surprised. Went round a corner and overdid it, almost came off. Scooter has also a different centre of balance and as you stand instead of sit, that is less stable. Like anything, once you are experienced its all easy, but IMHO first times for new riders, its not

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