EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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2degrees

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#2692429 14-Apr-2021 08:41

GV27:

Stinging used car imports to underwrite flash new EVs for people who can afford a new car, subsidy be damned, will have a flow on effect of people keeping older, less safe cars on the road.

The feebate will apply in the opposite scenarios too: rebates on imported used EVs, and fees on flash new Ford Rangers. This argument is no different to stinging poor people who smoke by increasing tobacco taxes: it's the right thing to do and ultimately benefits everyone, the poor most of all, as they are the worst hit by the negative consequences of the thing we're trying to discourage.

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frankv

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#2692436 14-Apr-2021 09:12

tripper1000:

People won't be motivated by what they (sub) consciously know to be false. We have more land area, less cars, less carbon emission per capita and only 7.5% of the population of the U.K.

We have far more cars per capita than the UK. From https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/national-vehicle-fleet-status/New-Zealand-Vehicle-Fleet-Status-202103.xls, we have 3.5M cars / 5M people = 700 cars / 1000 people. Probably more, since this excludes utes, I think. In 2018, UK had 488.

We have no need to build the same miserable style of dense homes as they endure in the U.K.

There are benefits to high density housing... there's lots of people who prefer that lifestyle to NZ. I'm not one of them, hence I live here. But characterising that as "miserable" and "to be endured" isn't necessarily true.

frankv

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#2692451 14-Apr-2021 09:24

GV27:

I have many cars. I can only drive one at a time. What business is it of anyone else if my cars are stored on my own land and registered correctly? Are we suggesting we start capping the number of vehicles that any one person can own?

You'll be pleased to know that no-one cares about you very much. ;) What they care about is the proportion of people who do/don't have access to a motor vehicle, and how much they use it. Those things are a bit difficult to measure, but per capita car ownership isn't, so per capita vehicle ownership is used as a coarse approximation of road use. Countries with low per capita vehicle ownership have low road usage, Countries with high per capita vehicle ownership have high road usage. There's a few outliers like you who own more than one vehicle, but they're not hugely significant. And they might make their excess vehicles available from time to time for family members or friends who don't own a car.

Obraik

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#2692514 14-Apr-2021 10:58

mattwnz:

That would be quite light weight being for a dingy? Not sure if there is a table for EVs showing the relative towing capabilities? I was looking at the tesla model 3, and it apparently wouldn't be good for towing.

Tesla is a bit weird about towing. In NZ, the Model X is the only Tesla that is officially rated to tow and can be purchased with a towing package.

However, in Europe (including the UK) the Model 3 can also be purchased with a tow package and it's rated for 910kg braked, 750kg unbraked. When the Model 3 was certified for Australia, Tesla included the towing capacity in its certification there but as of yet there has been no towing package made available in Australia or NZ. If you ask someone at Tesla they say it's on the way but they've been saying this since late 2019. There are a handful of people who have taken matters into their own hands and installed a third party tow bar without any issues and use their Model 3s to tow around boats, campervans, bikes, canoes, etc.

Their are some concerns that Tesla will null and void the cars warranty for doing this but this hasn't happened to anyone yet and I'm not sure the CGA would agree with such a move.

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wellygary

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#2692676 14-Apr-2021 14:12

If they can actually provide any sort of volume these should fly out the door.... and in the process make things like the Kona look expensive....

"Mercedes-Benz New Zealand has priced its small electric SUV, the EQA.

Set for a local launch in June, the EQA will first arrive in 250 form, priced at $85,500. That’s actually two grand cheaper than the roughly-equivalent petrol-powered 165kW/350Nm GLA 250 4Matic, an odd (but welcome!) change"

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/evs/124830711/mercedesbenz-achieves-ev-priceparity-with-new-eqa

Obraik

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#2692731 14-Apr-2021 15:12

Mercedes has just forced Hyundai to take a good hard look at its pricing. Who would buy a Hyundai when you can get a Mercedes for basically the same money?

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Scott3

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#2692755 14-Apr-2021 15:47

wellygary:

If they can actually provide any sort of volume these should fly out the door.... and in the process make things like the Kona look expensive....

"Mercedes-Benz New Zealand has priced its small electric SUV, the EQA.

Set for a local launch in June, the EQA will first arrive in 250 form, priced at $85,500. That’s actually two grand cheaper than the roughly-equivalent petrol-powered 165kW/350Nm GLA 250 4Matic, an odd (but welcome!) change"

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/evs/124830711/mercedesbenz-achieves-ev-priceparity-with-new-eqa

As long as they bring it in in decent volume (unlike the $59,900 Mini electric), the EQA250 is going to be fairly groundbreaking. It's just a touch smaller than a Rav4, so not a subcompact SUV like the kona.

Something like an E-golf is going is going to be a hard sell, when $16k more gets a luxury SUV with nearly double the range.

Should compete against non electric cars such as the Lexus UX hybrid too (that one is $73,300 in top spec)

MG ZS EV - $50,100 (pre-order price), WLTP range 262km
Renault Zoe Z.E. - $59,990 (run out price), range up to 300km real world
Nissan Leaf - $59,990, WLTP range up to 270km
Hyundai Ioniq EV - $65,990, WLTP range 311km
Volkswagen e-Golf - $69,490, range 220km real world
Kia Niro EV EX289 - $69,990, WLTP range 289km
Hyundai Ioniq EV Elite - $71,990, WLTP range 311km
BMW i3 - $72,200, range up to 260km real world
Kia Niro EV EX455 - $75,990, WLTP range 455km
Hyundai Kona Electric - $77,990, range 449km real world
Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus - $79,990, WLTP range 409km
Hyundai Kona Electric Elite - $84,990, range 449km real world
Mercedes-Benz EQA250 (base) - $85,500, WLTP range 426km
BMW i3s - $85,900, range up to 260km real world
Tesla Model 3 Long Range - $97,900, WLTP range 560km
Tesla Model 3 Performance - $106,900, WLTP range 530km
Audi e-tron 50 - $134,900, WLTP range 328km
Mercedes-Benz EQC 400 - $142,900, WLTP range 417km
Jaguar I-Pace S - $144,900, WLTP range 470km
Audi e-tron 55 - $148,500, WLTP range 417km
Mercedes-Benz EQC 400 Electric Art Line - $148,800, WLTP range 417km
Tesla Model S Long Range - $154,900, WLTP range 610km
Jaguar I-Pace SE - $154,900, WLTP range 470km
Audi e-tron 55 Advanced - $157,000, WLTP range 417km
Jaguar I-Pace HSE - $164,900, WLTP range 470km
Tesla Model X Long Range - $164,900, WLTP range 507km
Tesla Model S Performance - $184,900, WLTP range 593km
Tesla Model X Performance - $194,900, WLTP range 487km

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DS248

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#2692771 14-Apr-2021 16:11

Not everyone seems to like the EQA250. Possibly a factor in the NZ pricing?

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a35728246/2021-mercedes-benz-eqa250-drive/

wellygary

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#2692825 14-Apr-2021 16:29

DS248:

Not everyone seems to like the EQA250. Possibly a factor in the NZ pricing?

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a35728246/2021-mercedes-benz-eqa250-drive/

A pretty Naff review,.... Doesn't like that it is speed limited to 160km, and isn't fast enough to 100km

Also says it has poor handling, but then admits its on Winter tyres...

From the other reviews i've seen the only agreed point is that it has very low rear seats...

tdgeek

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#2692843 14-Apr-2021 17:54

Obraik:

Mercedes has just forced Hyundai to take a good hard look at its pricing. Who would buy a Hyundai when you can get a Mercedes for basically the same money?

Agree. While 80k is a stretch for most, it might be the straw that broke the camels back. The 65k cars may become the 48k cars. Looking at you Leaf, 61k for a base EV

HarmLessSolutions

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#2692866 14-Apr-2021 18:40

tdgeek:

Obraik:

Mercedes has just forced Hyundai to take a good hard look at its pricing. Who would buy a Hyundai when you can get a Mercedes for basically the same money?

Agree. While 80k is a stretch for most, it might be the straw that broke the camels back. The 65k cars may become the 48k cars. Looking at you Leaf, 61k for a base EV

Tesla's 'Battery Day' presentation promised significant battery cost decreases, and energy density and delivery advances due within the next couple of years. Tesla's advances will not only gain or at least maintain their market share but it will force other manufacturers to try to at least equal these parameters.

The next 5 years will see some extremely interesting advances in EV technology and market penetration. For auto manufacturers it will really be a case of keep up or shut up shop.

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mattwnz

20155 posts

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#2692885 14-Apr-2021 19:55

tdgeek:

Obraik:

Mercedes has just forced Hyundai to take a good hard look at its pricing. Who would buy a Hyundai when you can get a Mercedes for basically the same money?

Agree. While 80k is a stretch for most, it might be the straw that broke the camels back. The 65k cars may become the 48k cars. Looking at you Leaf, 61k for a base EV

Something like 40% of the price is in the batteries. So once the cost of those comes down, and prices on other components drop as they become more mass produced and efficiencies, they should drop a lot on price. Tesla are apparently due to release a new cheaper tesla model for significantly less than a lot of EVs. It is a bit like LCD TVs and monitors which used to be very expensive to produce and buy, but now they are so cheap to produce.

mattwnz

20155 posts

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#2692887 14-Apr-2021 19:58

Scott3:

Something like an E-golf is going is going to be a hard sell, when $16k more gets a luxury SUV with nearly double the range.

Should compete against non electric cars such as the Lexus UX hybrid too (that one is $73,300 in top spec)

Aren't Lexus doing a plugin hybrid small SUV, that will be based on the new RAV4 prime?

gzt

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#2692897 14-Apr-2021 20:25

mattwnz: Something like 40% of the price is in the batteries. So once the cost of those comes down, and prices on other components drop as they become more mass produced and efficiencies, they should drop a lot on price. Tesla are apparently due to release a new cheaper tesla model for significantly less than a lot of EVs. It is a bit like LCD TVs and monitors which used to be very expensive to produce and buy, but now they are so cheap to produce.

Long life batteries with secondary use is the other thing moving forward. At the other end of Tesla's low cost battery is Tesla's million mile battery. A battery unit like that will have a huge secondary market. In practice this will reduce the price of vehicles.

Scott3

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#2692899 14-Apr-2021 20:32

mattwnz:

Aren't Lexus doing a plugin hybrid small SUV, that will be based on the new RAV4 prime?

Yip the NX450+

But dosn't sound like Lexus NZ is going to sell it. I quote from their webpage: "Unlike electric cars, you’ll never have to connect a Lexus hybrid electric vehicle to a power socket or charge overnight — they’re self-charging and always ready to go."

NZ is getting the pure electric UX300e (315km WLTP range). But the Merc is going to slaughter it on range, for what seems likely to be a similar or lesser price. Could well beat it to market too.

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