EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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5897 posts

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#2692901 14-Apr-2021 20:43

frankv:

You'll be pleased to know that no-one cares about you very much. ;) What they care about is the proportion of people who do/don't have access to a motor vehicle, and how much they use it. Those things are a bit difficult to measure, but per capita car ownership isn't, so per capita vehicle ownership is used as a coarse approximation of road use.

People who use it as a measure of something we must reduce are missing the point, VKT is the real issue. Cars don't emit carbon when they're sitting in a garage or someone's living room.

It can also spur EV adoption - a crappy range on a second-hand Leaf won't phase me if I can keep another vehicle for the times I need something a bit more potent or for longer drives.

But policies aimed at reducing the numbers of cars people can own - which does come up from time to time in these debates - would mean people hold out for vehicles which can be used to every possible use case, which is absurd.

Scott3

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#2692916 14-Apr-2021 21:29

wellygary:

DS248:

Not everyone seems to like the EQA250. Possibly a factor in the NZ pricing?

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a35728246/2021-mercedes-benz-eqa250-drive/

A pretty Naff review,.... Doesn't like that it is speed limited to 160km, and isn't fast enough to 100km

Also says it has poor handling, but then admits its on Winter tyres...

From the other reviews i've seen the only agreed point is that it has very low rear seats...

That journalist seems to be missing the point of the car. It is a FWD small to medium Luxary electric SUV.

He is right in identifying that in terms of performance the like of Tesla model 3 blows it away (even the slightly cheaper RWD SR+ model has 211kW, RWD & a 0-100 time of 5.3 seconds). But buyers who care about that are likely to go that route anyway.

For much of the buying public for such a model, the likes of aesthetics, Interior quality, ride quality, acoustic's etc are likely to be more important. A 0-100 time of 8.9 seconds is quite adequate for a non performance car. And a faster AWD version is expected later.

But yes, it is a EV conversion of a multi use platform, so like the Leaf, Kona etc, it misses out on things like a frunk, RWD etc. And yes they "only" gave this 2000kg car 140kW of FWD...

From an NZ context of the review:

Can't get the Bolt here (as with the top leaf, not in the same segment anyway)
Ford Mustang Mach E is yet to be confirmed for NZ (hence unlikely to make it hear this year), and if it did, I would expect pricing to be well north of NZD90k based on USA pricing.
Other than the very small & city focused i3, it is the cheapest luxury EV by a massive margin.
In the same ballpark as a higher spec Kona or e-nero in pricing, but a bit bigger and more luxurious.
In the same ballpark as a tesla model 3 SR+ base in pricing, but an SUV, and more luxurious.

The more the merrier as far as I am concerned.

Geektastic

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#2692936 14-Apr-2021 22:02

GV27:

frankv:

You'll be pleased to know that no-one cares about you very much. ;) What they care about is the proportion of people who do/don't have access to a motor vehicle, and how much they use it. Those things are a bit difficult to measure, but per capita car ownership isn't, so per capita vehicle ownership is used as a coarse approximation of road use.

People who use it as a measure of something we must reduce are missing the point, VKT is the real issue. Cars don't emit carbon when they're sitting in a garage or someone's living room.

It can also spur EV adoption - a crappy range on a second-hand Leaf won't phase me if I can keep another vehicle for the times I need something a bit more potent or for longer drives.

But policies aimed at reducing the numbers of cars people can own - which does come up from time to time in these debates - would mean people hold out for vehicles which can be used to every possible use case, which is absurd.

Who keeps their car in the living room?!

mattwnz

20162 posts

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#2692949 15-Apr-2021 01:01

Scott3:

mattwnz:

Aren't Lexus doing a plugin hybrid small SUV, that will be based on the new RAV4 prime?

Yip the NX450+

But dosn't sound like Lexus NZ is going to sell it. I quote from their webpage: "Unlike electric cars, you’ll never have to connect a Lexus hybrid electric vehicle to a power socket or charge overnight — they’re self-charging and always ready to go."

The Rav4 prime / NX450 looks like a good vehicle, but reviews I have seen basically say that it is just a waste having the petrol engine which you have to lug around everywhere, when on most trips you will never need it. Seems to make far more sense just to replace the engine and fuel tank with more batteries and just turn it into a pure EV. But I guess the problem and concern people have is making long trips, and not having a place to charge it mid trip. SO it is more of a transition vehicle. Normal hybrid don't appear to be able to be switched to pure EV mode all of the time. It sort of reminds me a bit of those SSD / HDD combos that came in when SSDs were really expensive. Sort of transitioning technology, but almost the worst of both world, because you still have to service the petrol engine, on top of any EV maintenance, even though it is an EV most of the time. .

tdgeek

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#2692951 15-Apr-2021 06:40

mattwnz:

Something like 40% of the price is in the batteries. So once the cost of those comes down, and prices on other components drop as they become more mass produced and efficiencies, they should drop a lot on price. Tesla are apparently due to release a new cheaper tesla model for significantly less than a lot of EVs. It is a bit like LCD TVs and monitors which used to be very expensive to produce and buy, but now they are so cheap to produce.

How much is a new ICE engine? And transmission? Significant. Pretty much the rest of the car is the same. When HP CDRW drives were $2500, they didn't cost that to produce, its R+D recovery. When will EV's get cheaper? They are produced in low numbers, they are selling, no need. Show me the money. Maybe when a manufacturer gets real and PROMOTES EV sales with a near equivalent price, EV take-up will grow. +1 to Mercedes for breaking the artificial model. Same with Tesla, its not an expensive EV, I think the base model is not much more than a new Leaf

tdgeek

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#2692952 15-Apr-2021 06:44

GV27:

a crappy range on a second-hand Leaf won't phase me if I can keep another vehicle for the times I need something a bit more potent or for longer drives.

I dont really buy that. Two rego's, insurances, WOF, repairs, now I have two cars with the emissions it cost to produce them, instead of one. May as well have one car keep the ICE make it nicer as a car at the same price as the ICE and crappy EV. Both options are poor for emissions.

frankv

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#2693021 15-Apr-2021 08:28

mattwnz:

Something like 40% of the price is in the batteries. So once the cost of those comes down, and prices on other components drop as they become more mass produced and efficiencies, they should drop a lot on price.

This is a good reason for subsidies and inducements for early adopters... whoever buys now is going to lose a lot when they come to resell, because they'll be competing against much cheaper & better new cars. If no-one buys a new Leaf or Kona or EQA this year, there won't be secondhand ones available in 3-5 years.

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GV27

5897 posts

Uber Geek

#2693043 15-Apr-2021 09:30

tdgeek:

GV27:

a crappy range on a second-hand Leaf won't phase me if I can keep another vehicle for the times I need something a bit more potent or for longer drives.

I dont really buy that. Two rego's, insurances, WOF, repairs, now I have two cars with the emissions it cost to produce them, instead of one. May as well have one car keep the ICE make it nicer as a car at the same price as the ICE and crappy EV. Both options are poor for emissions.

If I take the bulk of my driving over to a cheap Leaf, then my outflows on my already massively depreciated Corolla plummets and I get to do the bulk of my KMs in a newer, safer electric car that costs peanuts to run. I still have the old car there if I need it, but it now costs me massively less to own because all the kilometre-driven expenses have been slashed - I was incurring the bulk of those costs in day to day commuting kms.

At least that's the plan. I'm waiting for clarity around used cars and incentives, like a lot of other people.

HarmLessSolutions

974 posts

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#2693052 15-Apr-2021 09:48

tdgeek:

GV27:

a crappy range on a second-hand Leaf won't phase me if I can keep another vehicle for the times I need something a bit more potent or for longer drives.

I dont really buy that. Two rego's, insurances, WOF, repairs, now I have two cars with the emissions it cost to produce them, instead of one. May as well have one car keep the ICE make it nicer as a car at the same price as the ICE and crappy EV. Both options are poor for emissions.

That's pretty much our situation and it works for us.

Our primary car is a 2012 Leaf (which will receive a battery update in the next year or two) with an aged Commodore SW used for towing our tandem trailer and out of province trips. The Commodore has >260,000km on it but is still a reliable workhorse and has well and truly paid off its manufacturing emissions. During last year's level 4 lockdown it was started once in 6 weeks, to check the battery health, with the Leaf doing daily mail/courier runs.

Both vehicles have economic insurance costs and minimal maintenance, including WOF related, and the Leaf's running costs are miniscule with cheap off peak charging and a PV installation in the offing on our rural property which will provide 'running on sunshine' ability.

We are rural and need 2 vehicles so either one just won't cut it alone. And the Commodore will be ditched in favour of a second EV once prices on secondhand ones reach our means. Rest assured that once you've experienced owning an EV going back to an ICEV definitely seems like a backward step.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Obraik

2123 posts

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#2693055 15-Apr-2021 09:52

mattwnz:

The Rav4 prime / NX450 looks like a good vehicle, but reviews I have seen basically say that it is just a waste having the petrol engine which you have to lug around everywhere, when on most trips you will never need it. Seems to make far more sense just to replace the engine and fuel tank with more batteries and just turn it into a pure EV. But I guess the problem and concern people have is making long trips, and not having a place to charge it mid trip. SO it is more of a transition vehicle. Normal hybrid don't appear to be able to be switched to pure EV mode all of the time. It sort of reminds me a bit of those SSD / HDD combos that came in when SSDs were really expensive. Sort of transitioning technology, but almost the worst of both world, because you still have to service the petrol engine, on top of any EV maintenance, even though it is an EV most of the time. .

This really isn't the big deal Toyota would like everyone to believe. If they were to properly equip it with batteries as you said it would probably have around 300-400km of range. For most people, that makes it perfectly fine for the daily commute, weekend errands and traveling typical distances for a weekend holiday. It also puts 10's of fast chargers within its range.

But Toyota won't do that because they're stuck on thinking Hydrogen is the way forward for personal transport when everyone else has seen the writing on the wall

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NorthernZone

69 posts

Master Geek

#2693056 15-Apr-2021 09:52

We're hearing a lot about big price increases coming for electricity. That won't help EV uptake, will it?

SaltyNZ

8230 posts

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#2693057 15-Apr-2021 09:54

NorthernZone:

We're hearing a lot about big price increases coming for electricity. That won't help EV uptake, will it?

Regular big price increases on fuel don't seem to make a dent in ICE uptake.

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tdgeek

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#2693062 15-Apr-2021 10:03

NorthernZone:

We're hearing a lot about big price increases coming for electricity. That won't help EV uptake, will it?

Where did you hear that? EK recently dropped the kW/h rate for me by about 7%

NorthernZone

69 posts

Master Geek

#2693065 15-Apr-2021 10:09

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124640081/power-bills-start-to-climb-as-wholesale-prices-surge

HarmLessSolutions

974 posts

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#2693080 15-Apr-2021 10:23

NorthernZone:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/124640081/power-bills-start-to-climb-as-wholesale-prices-surge

From Contact Energy chief executive Mike Fuge; "He said an “over-investment” in solar and wind generation had been partly responsible for bringing wholesale electricity prices in Australia down to about 4c/kWh."

Australia's recent huge moves away from coal generation including their subsidised rooftop solar strategy seems to have been successful then. I would interpret that Stuff report as being yet more reason to invest in home PV generation.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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