Tesla Model 3 News and Discussion

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#2525297 18-Jul-2020 18:56

Tesla Model 3 SR+ (UK) The Problem Isn't The Car, It's The Company

Electric Vehicle Man

Finally, after a few months, here's the review of the Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus (SR+) .
The car is what most think it is, the industry leader, but Tesla themselves are letting it down.

networkn

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#2533735 3-Aug-2020 14:03

I don't see it in the past few pages, but looking at the 3 and S, doing say 300-400KM a week, mostly short trips, what would be the power costs assuming car always charged at your home?

There have been some reports refuting that a fully electric car is indeed superior to ICE for Co2 emissions, with some report I read admittedly from a while back saying a Model3 wouldn't "break-even" till a ICE car does 100,000 KM's?

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#2533748 3-Aug-2020 14:10

networkn:

I don't see it in the past few pages, but looking at the 3 and S, doing say 300-400KM a week, mostly short trips, what would be the power costs assuming car always charged at your home?

There have been some reports refuting that a fully electric car is indeed superior to ICE for Co2 emissions, with some report I read admittedly from a while back saying a Model3 wouldn't "break-even" till a ICE car does 100,000 KM's?

I am averaging 148wh/km (over 10,000km) in my model 3 performance

So thats around 7km per kw. If you pay 12c per kwh at home then 400km will cost you around $7. I dont know your electricity price but tbh you hardly notice it on your power bill.

Most of the 'break even' studies on EVs tend to be either heavily biased or based on USA grid power mix etc.

Teslas are built with a lot of renewable power (not entirely though) and NZ has a 85-90% renewable grid so we are well setup. We have an additional cost of shipping cars here but thats true irrespective of the vehicle.

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#2533751 3-Aug-2020 14:13

Where are you paying 12c ? I am paying either 19 or 21c?

Where could I find an "unbiased" report that will in relatively simple terms do a proper comparison?

I mean, I know, that Li-ION extraction and processing IS pretty intensive..

RobDickinson

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#2533761 3-Aug-2020 14:19

networkn:

Where are you paying 12c ? I am paying either 19 or 21c?

Where could I find an "unbiased" report that will in relatively simple terms do a proper comparison?

I mean, I know, that Li-ION extraction and processing IS pretty intensive..

What you pay depends on where you are (and what time of day etc). I'm in Christchurch and that is a night rate. (which is why I laid out the numbers so you can work out your own costs)

I'm not sure where you can find an accurate unbiased study tbh, tesla publishes a detailed environmental impact study every year

last time I saw anything about this was looking at how IEC cars emit about 1/3rd more than older studies showed because of the long tailpipe ( extraction, shipping, refining etc) that wasnt ever taken into account

Look at the model 3 graph here and use Norway as an example.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change

tdgeek

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#2533762 3-Aug-2020 14:20

networkn:

I don't see it in the past few pages, but looking at the 3 and S, doing say 300-400KM a week, mostly short trips, what would be the power costs assuming car always charged at your home?

There have been some reports refuting that a fully electric car is indeed superior to ICE for Co2 emissions, with some report I read admittedly from a while back saying a Model3 wouldn't "break-even" till a ICE car does 100,000 KM's?

The figure I see quoted when agencies or journos are talking fuel costs, is that EV's use about 30 cents per litre equivalent. It never says if its based on average kW charge, Low user or lower night rates, but its clearly significant. The main concern is that RUC is about 70c per litre, so if/when that resumes for EV;s the fuel cost will be about a dollar per litre, which is much less palatable. If you could get an equivalent EV at an ICE car price, a dollar a litre is a great saving, but it may take a lot of litres to recover a price premium

RobDickinson

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#2533763 3-Aug-2020 14:22

You are not buying a model 3 to save money specifically (well the purchase price) like you could do with a used leaf

Compare the running costs vs equivalent BMW or Mercedes.

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#2533773 3-Aug-2020 14:33

Surely the debate is not about the dollar cost but about the environmental impact - as I read the current situation we have to make some changes in the way we obtain energy to survive. This is going to be expensive no matter what but going down the route of reducing/stopping our dependence on oil may mean that future generations will continue to enjoy living on this planet. There will be costs in the short term but the longer term outcome should be better.

There is no debate that oil is a resource that once extracted and processed ready to be used by a car, it can only be used once. Lithium also has to be extracted but can be recycled and used many times. All of the many articles that are available that I have read indicate the the environmental impact of getting oil out of the ground and ready to be used by a car is very much greater than the impact of mining lithium. Also I have noted that articles written on this will factor in the costs/impact of electric batteries and the production of electricity to charge them but completely omit any calculation relating to the extraction and refinement of the use once oil/gas for combustion engines.

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#2533792 3-Aug-2020 14:42

RobDickinson:

You are not buying a model 3 to save money specifically (well the purchase price) like you could do with a used leaf

Compare the running costs vs equivalent BMW or Mercedes.

Ok, but the recent posts are about running costs of fuel.

RobDickinson

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#2533794 3-Aug-2020 14:44

tdgeek:

RobDickinson:

You are not buying a model 3 to save money specifically (well the purchase price) like you could do with a used leaf

Compare the running costs vs equivalent BMW or Mercedes.

Ok, but the recent posts are about running costs of fuel.

Yes, of which I explained in great detail my running costs

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#2533796 3-Aug-2020 14:46

RobDickinson:

You are not buying a model 3 to save money specifically (well the purchase price) like you could do with a used leaf

Compare the running costs vs equivalent BMW or Mercedes.

Well, to be honest, the way EV has been pitched, is to save the planet, but what I've read to date, is that the gap isn't anywhere *near* as significant as what was originally stated. The problem with getting to the bottom of it, is that each side has a reason to uplift their end of it.

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#2533815 3-Aug-2020 15:20

networkn:

RobDickinson:

You are not buying a model 3 to save money specifically (well the purchase price) like you could do with a used leaf

Compare the running costs vs equivalent BMW or Mercedes.

Well, to be honest, the way EV has been pitched, is to save the planet, but what I've read to date, is that the gap isn't anywhere *near* as significant as what was originally stated. The problem with getting to the bottom of it, is that each side has a reason to uplift their end of it.

This is from a leaf in the UK. UK has 40-50% renewables on their grid. Even in the UK its paying back its CO2 costs in less than 4 years. The average age of cars in New Zealand is 15 years.

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Obraik

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#2533817 3-Aug-2020 15:25

networkn:

Well, to be honest, the way EV has been pitched, is to save the planet, but what I've read to date, is that the gap isn't anywhere *near* as significant as what was originally stated. The problem with getting to the bottom of it, is that each side has a reason to uplift their end of it.

The gap really is going to depend on the country and the manufacturer of the car you're looking - these factors need to be taken into account when you're looking at these studies. In the case of owning a Tesla in New Zealand it seems fairly visible that the gap between the Tesla and an ICE vehicle is going to be pretty large, in favour of the Tesla. The majority of our electricity comes from renewables (over 80%), Tesla uses renewables at their factories and Tesla also has started using recycled battery material (around 95% of a pack can be recycled) in their manufacturing process.

Fuel savings become complicated because it depends a lot on what other options you were looking at. If you're comparing a Model 3 to a Swift then fuel savings really aren't something you can claim. If instead you're comparing to a BMW 3 Series then fuel savings do indeed become a factor.

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RobDickinson

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#2533819 3-Aug-2020 15:30

Comparing my M3P to a BMW M3 on cost I think it will work out to about half the overall cost over 5 years (purchase and running costs , $96k vs $162k and $5k pa fuel difference).

Thats outgoings, theres a significant aspect of residual value but the tesla would have to be worth nothing in 5 years time to be evens.

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#2533825 3-Aug-2020 15:46

There is also the health aspect to consider on top of the climate benefits. With the recent world wide lock downs we visually saw how much pollution was in the air of our cities caused by vehicles that we end up breathing in. There have been numerous studies on what those vehicle fumes do to our health. This is rather outdated now but in 2001 the Ministry of Transport completed a study that found 399 people died each year from vehicle pollution - higher than the 2019 road toll. This is more recent but includes all air pollution, not just from vehicles

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