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# 251089 8-Jun-2019 09:17
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Basically the NZ navy has bought a 2nd hand huge crane designed for servicing oil rigs & has dressed it up as hugely capable all purpose ship designed for disaster relief and a 100 other tasks.   The crane appears to dominate around two thirds of the vessel's deck.   Sure a ship with a crane is a good idea, but a crane with a ship is not.   This is going to be another expensive blunder just like the Charles Upham.   The ship's old name is Edda Fonn & its number ST253.  The navy commissioned an artists impression of the ship which manages to disguise the size and proportion of the crane quite cleverly!   Just do a search for ST253 or Edda Fonn & you'll find it.

 

 

 


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  # 2254176 8-Jun-2019 09:52
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O.K.  Here is the photo...   It's blatantly obvious that this view was chosen to make the crane look less dominating.

 


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  # 2254182 8-Jun-2019 10:05
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Is the crane intended for the scenario of lifting up shipwreaks, crashed planes etc out of the sea?

Is similar lifting capability available on other ships in NZ?





 
 
 
 


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  # 2254184 8-Jun-2019 10:10
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So whats the issue? 

 

No doubt the crane would have been an optional extra when the ship was built. 

 

 




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  # 2254186 8-Jun-2019 10:14
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Just wait for a few years.   The navy will decide that the huge crane does not meet their needs any more, pay millions for its removal and replacement with a useful small crane.   This will be dressed up as giving the navy a more capable and flexible vessel.


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  # 2254187 8-Jun-2019 10:17
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It was bought as a diving support vessel. It was built as a diving support vessel according to Wikipedia. It has a large crane. Not sure what the issue is?

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=HMNZS+Manawanui&client=ms-opera-mobile&channel=new&espv=1&prmd=inmv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjw0fPCsdjiAhVZaCsKHWNDC_0Q_AUoAXoECA8QAQ&biw=360&bih=512

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  # 2254248 8-Jun-2019 12:17
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And of course some bloke/lady on a forum knows everything..

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  # 2254252 8-Jun-2019 12:39
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@amiga500 what do you do for a job?


 
 
 
 


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  # 2254255 8-Jun-2019 12:47
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amiga500:

 

Just wait for a few years.   The navy will decide that the huge crane does not meet their needs any more, pay millions for its removal and replacement with a useful small crane.   This will be dressed up as giving the navy a more capable and flexible vessel.

 

 

So you're saying the Navy should have paid up front to have the existing crane removed and a smaller, less capable crane fitted?

 

What's the lifting capacity of this one, and how does that compare to the User Requirement Specification for the procurement, and to the capacity of vessels that can be leased in NZ?

 

You evidently have expertise in this area, please enlighten us




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  # 2254258 8-Jun-2019 13:12
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Jase2985:

 

@amiga500 what do you do for a job?

 

 

An unpaid Defence Analyst & you?


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  # 2254261 8-Jun-2019 13:19
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amiga500:

Jase2985:


@amiga500 what do you do for a job?



An unpaid Defence Analyst & you?



Is that a bit like how I am an unpaid athlete because I run each day



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  # 2254263 8-Jun-2019 13:21
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shk292:

 

amiga500:

 

Just wait for a few years.   The navy will decide that the huge crane does not meet their needs any more, pay millions for its removal and replacement with a useful small crane.   This will be dressed up as giving the navy a more capable and flexible vessel.

 

 

So you're saying the Navy should have paid up front to have the existing crane removed and a smaller, less capable crane fitted?

 

What's the lifting capacity of this one, and how does that compare to the User Requirement Specification for the procurement, and to the capacity of vessels that can be leased in NZ?

 

You evidently have expertise in this area, please enlighten us

 

 

That crane was designed for servicing & replacing bits on very tall oil rigs.   It's a completely different deal compared to a crane that could lift pallets of relief supplies from the ship onto a wharf or barge.   Mind you it does look big enough to lift an army LAV, so perhaps we can put a few LAVs on one side of the deck the next time we assist the USA in bringing democracy to some impoverished Pacific state.


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  # 2254271 8-Jun-2019 13:28
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amiga500:

 

Jase2985:

 

@amiga500 what do you do for a job?

 

 

An unpaid Defence Analyst & you?

 

 

so given you are a "defense analysis" surely you should know what the ship is going to be used for, and what capabilities it brings to the defense force and government?

 

because your posts make it clear you havent the foggiest

 

as for what i do, lets just say i know a hell of a lot more about this topic than you do.

 

amiga500:

 

O.K.  Here is the photo...   It's blatantly obvious that this view was chosen to make the crane look less dominating.

 

and what about the other 4-5 renders the defence force released? showing both sides of the ship and views from the back?

 

you cant pick and choose things to fit your arguement


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  # 2254273 8-Jun-2019 13:33
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as for the crane the somewhat subject of your argument, which is about a very small fraction of what the ship will be used for

 

50t @ 16m on single part
100t @ 10 m on double part
Max 20 t @ 27 m

 

more than capable of lifting a LAV, but why would you want/need too? you have Canterbury for taking those sort of loads, and the crane is capable of lifting containers as is the deck capable of accepting them. so more than suitable for an advanced party for disaster relief before the cavalry arrives in the form of Canterbury

 

a Holden commodore was designed for transporting people around in comfort while providing decent luggage space, yet they race it successfully on the race track.... things can be designed for one job yet do another job perfectly fine.


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  # 2254295 8-Jun-2019 13:39
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Hi, as most of NZDF function is HDAR, if this ship was to carry vehicles its more likely Pinny's and MHOV's than LAV's, but thats what the Canterbury is for as Jase mentioned.

 

Cyril


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  # 2254323 8-Jun-2019 14:15
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I know nothing about navy ships but these quotes from Stuff sounds like it is quite capable for the types of things NZ would use it for.

 

 

 

"A typical mission ... to the islands in Fiji, it could get up there in just over three days and could hold station there for close to a month."

 

It could run tasks up there, return home and still have over 40 per cent of its fuel, Dyer said. 

 

The ship's crane can also retrieve 100 tonnes from one kilometre underwater. It could even retrieve a sunken ship.

 

"It's also got a massive range. It's just completed a 12,000 mile, 46-day journey without refuelling." 

 

The ship will provide the ability for diving and hydrographic specialists to conduct specialised operations such as surveying coastlines and harbours. 

 

Dyer said although the vessel is already 15 years old, engineers had assessed it to be seven years younger than that based on its good condition. 

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/112668400/ministry-of-defences-new-dive-and-hydrographic-vessel-arrives-in-ship-shape 


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