MH370 - Call for Search & Rescue Help

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#1006482 15-Mar-2014 23:24

For a few days it has been said the plane flew on for 4-5 hours, which is consistent with its initially stated fuel range.
What is not known is if it has landed (in a remote location) or crashed.
The term highjack means it has deviated from it intended route but in a controlled (or preplanned) way. Therefore it's likely, and given the nature of the disappearance, that at least one of the pilots was complicit.
The passengers, expecting a long flight at night, may have been unaware until landing (assuming this outcome). However as there's been no news that any have activated their mobiles then in this scenario the plane could only have landed in some remote location.
Given the length of the ongoing flight I'd rule out pilot suicide.
The 'pings' which have identified the likely scenario is no different to you having your cellphone turned on without a simcard. The satellites (network) knows it's there but won't register or acknowledge it without a valid account.

Now to work out where it's gone. Its a large airliner and would attract attention at any remote location. Unless that place is a military installation, then word will get out. Crashing on water should have activated a location beacon (?), simarly a crash on land would (also) activate Blackbox beacons.... and there's satellites that should pick up those signals not to mention all those searching.

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#1006485 15-Mar-2014 23:29

A theory mentioned was like the case when a terrorist brought a bomb on board. It exploded, killed one passenger who was sitting where the bomb was but the plane recovered. No one claimed it, so it was a test as the person they found who planted the bomb was a known terrorist. This may be a test, and they now know what efforts and tech are involved. And how to create super publicity

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#1006487 15-Mar-2014 23:34

oxnsox: For a few days it has been said the plane flew on for 4-5 hours, which is consistent with its initially stated fuel range.
What is not known is if it has landed (in a remote location) or crashed.
The term highjack means it has deviated from it intended route but in a controlled (or preplanned) way. Therefore it's likely, and given the nature of the disappearance, that at least one of the pilots was complicit.
The passengers, expecting a long flight at night, may have been unaware until landing (assuming this outcome). However as there's been no news that any have activated their mobiles then in this scenario the plane could only have landed in some remote location.
Given the length of the ongoing flight I'd rule out pilot suicide.
The 'pings' which have identified the likely scenario is no different to you having your cellphone turned on without a simcard. The satellites (network) knows it's there but won't register or acknowledge it without a valid account.

Now to work out where it's gone. Its a large airliner and would attract attention at any remote location. Unless that place is a military installation, then word will get out. Crashing on water should have activated a location beacon (?), simarly a crash on land would (also) activate Blackbox beacons.... and there's satellites that should pick up those signals not to mention all those searching.

From all the Air Crash Investigations I have seen, the black boxes are the only beacons and they don't transmit that far, 1.5km comes to mind.

Having said that, this must be a call for 24/7 air surveilance so that at any time, the authorities, or at least a combined international version of air crash units, must know where every aircraft is.

mattwnz

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#1006497 16-Mar-2014 00:00

tdgeek: A theory mentioned was like the case when a terrorist brought a bomb on board. It exploded, killed one passenger who was sitting where the bomb was but the plane recovered. No one claimed it, so it was a test as the person they found who planted the bomb was a known terrorist. This may be a test, and they now know what efforts and tech are involved. And how to create super publicity

That is pretty much impossible, because pilots would have alerted ground control. Also things were intentionally disabled. I thought these days pilots were locked into the cockpit, so no one could get in, and if someone did, they have secret alert buttons.

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#1006509 16-Mar-2014 01:24

mattwnz:
tdgeek: A theory mentioned was like the case when a terrorist brought a bomb on board. It exploded, killed one passenger who was sitting where the bomb was but the plane recovered. No one claimed it, so it was a test as the person they found who planted the bomb was a known terrorist. This may be a test, and they now know what efforts and tech are involved. And how to create super publicity

That is pretty much impossible, because pilots would have alerted ground control. Also things were intentionally disabled. I thought these days pilots were locked into the cockpit, so no one could get in, and if someone did, they have secret alert buttons.

If a person wished to force their way into the cockpit they would. Or, alert flight crew to tell the pilots that they demand entry or they will blow the plane up. They would disable the features that they did, and certainly a surprise entry would obviate any secret buttons. The aircraft went changed altitude markedly, and the transponders were disabled a bit later, so it all seems like force to me. All theory off course, with no known info

Technofreak

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#1006565 16-Mar-2014 09:43

mattwnz: Well it has at last been confirmed by malaylasia, and they wouldn't have finally confirmed it, unless they were 100 percent sure.

Yep, and earlier in the week they repeatedly denied any reports the aircraft had flown for another 4 or 5 hours, they also initially said there were indications it had turned prior to losing radar contact then the steadfastly denied that too. How can we believe them now. Unless they can provide some incontrovertible evidence I'm afraid I think all options are still on the table.

Fred99: So far (no ransom demand - or claim of responsibility for a terrorist act), the pilot has to be the main suspect - he's flipped his lid prior to that flight, carefully planned.

True either pilot cannot be ruled out from being involved, however flipping out and carefully planned don't go together in my book. If it's suicide there is no need for any fancy stuff.

oxnsox: Now to work out where it's gone. Its a large airliner and would attract attention at any remote location. Unless that place is a military installation, then word will get out. Crashing on water should have activated a location beacon (?), simarly a crash on land would (also) activate Blackbox beacons.... and there's satellites that should pick up those signals not to mention all those searching.

Good questions. IF, and it's a very big IF, it's landed somewhere it has to be a survivable landing without the ELBA being activated as there's been no reports of the ELBA being activated. ELBA activations these days are all monitored by satellite and in many cases include the GPS location of the aircraft. So if it's landed somewhere, that takes a bit of co-ordination and covering up which means major outside help.

tdgeek: If a person wished to force their way into the cockpit they would. Or, alert flight crew to tell the pilots that they demand entry or they will blow the plane up. They would disable the features that they did, and certainly a surprise entry would obviate any secret buttons. The aircraft went changed altitude markedly, and the transponders were disabled a bit later, so it all seems like force to me. All theory off course, with no known info

Any attempt at forced entry would allow the flight crew (flight crew are the pilots by the way, the crew in the back are cabin crew) to put out a distress message. How do the hijackers disable the systems while still out side the cockpit since the controls for these systems are inside the cockpit? To my knowledge there are no secret buttons but there are procedures the crew will follow, which appear to be normal flight related activity, to alert ATC to their dilemma.

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Fred99

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#1006572 16-Mar-2014 09:56

tdgeek:
mattwnz:
tdgeek: A theory mentioned was like the case when a terrorist brought a bomb on board. It exploded, killed one passenger who was sitting where the bomb was but the plane recovered. No one claimed it, so it was a test as the person they found who planted the bomb was a known terrorist. This may be a test, and they now know what efforts and tech are involved. And how to create super publicity

That is pretty much impossible, because pilots would have alerted ground control. Also things were intentionally disabled. I thought these days pilots were locked into the cockpit, so no one could get in, and if someone did, they have secret alert buttons.

If a person wished to force their way into the cockpit they would. Or, alert flight crew to tell the pilots that they demand entry or they will blow the plane up. They would disable the features that they did, and certainly a surprise entry would obviate any secret buttons. The aircraft went changed altitude markedly, and the transponders were disabled a bit later, so it all seems like force to me. All theory off course, with no known info

The secure cockpit doors are potentially a double-edged sword. The door has to be opened many times on a long haul flight anyway, pilots have to pee etc. Quite handy for a hijacker too - as if he can get into the cockpit and close the door behind him, he doesn't necessarily need a team of fellow hijackers to keep passengers under control like in the bad old days.
However, in the case of MH370, there's no emergency calls from a cellphone, so either the passengers had no idea they were way off course, they were incapacitated or under guard, or there were jammers in the plane.

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#1006573 16-Mar-2014 09:57

in Malaysia, "official" stories have "versions" and they tend to "evolve" or even "mutate" over time.

I don't believe a word any of them says.

consider them educated guesses at best, rumour mill at worse.

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#1006575 16-Mar-2014 09:59

so ... is this the same "plane" that flew across Malaysia revealed on day 2 of the crisis by somebody which was then denied by the air force which later became "we are not sure if that is the plane" and then now it was definitely the plane?

if so, they simply let unidentified flying objects across their airspace and then go back to sleep?

Fred99

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#1006592 16-Mar-2014 10:22

joker97: so ... is this the same "plane" that flew across Malaysia revealed on day 2 of the crisis by somebody which was then denied by the air force which later became "we are not sure if that is the plane" and then now it was definitely the plane?

if so, they simply let unidentified flying objects across their airspace and then go back to sleep?

Yeah maybe...
As I mention above, the line of sight from where the ADS-B transponder signal was lost to the point in the middle of the Malacca Strait where it turned, takes it over the Thai border - it would have probably flown in and out of Malaysian and Thai air space, over steep terrain, direction not toward Thailand or Malaysia, and they may have only been a brief incursions because of the shape of the border - apart from the last 75km or so over Malaysia - which would only take a little over 5 minutes over Malaysian land territory, when it was heading away out to sea anyway.

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#1006606 16-Mar-2014 10:48

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse ...

'Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 plane found in Bermuda Triangle!' Facebook links are profiting hackers

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-plane-found-in-bermuda-triangle-facebook-links-are-profiting-hackers-9194660.html

"Viral Facebook posts claiming the missing Malaysia Airlines MH370 flight has been found are pieces of malware and links to fake surveys posted by hackers, who are now profiting from people’s growing interest in the story. The posts contain videos that look legitimate and claim the plane has been found in various places, from the Bermuda Triangle to having been spotted at sea, with many stating its passengers are “alive” or “saved”.

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#1006644 16-Mar-2014 11:53

tdgeek:
mattwnz:
tdgeek: A theory mentioned was like the case when a terrorist brought a bomb on board. It exploded, killed one passenger who was sitting where the bomb was but the plane recovered. No one claimed it, so it was a test as the person they found who planted the bomb was a known terrorist. This may be a test, and they now know what efforts and tech are involved. And how to create super publicity

That is pretty much impossible, because pilots would have alerted ground control. Also things were intentionally disabled. I thought these days pilots were locked into the cockpit, so no one could get in, and if someone did, they have secret alert buttons.

If a person wished to force their way into the cockpit they would. Or, alert flight crew to tell the pilots that they demand entry or they will blow the plane up. They would disable the features that they did, and certainly a surprise entry would obviate any secret buttons. The aircraft went changed altitude markedly, and the transponders were disabled a bit later, so it all seems like force to me. All theory off course, with no known info

Unlikely that the pilots would allow them entry without even alerting anyone by radio. There are coded phrases that appear innocuous but which alert the ground staff to a threat on board if they were worried about being overt.

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#1006645 16-Mar-2014 11:54

joker97: in Malaysia, "official" stories have "versions" and they tend to "evolve" or even "mutate" over time.

I don't believe a word any of them says.

consider them educated guesses at best, rumour mill at worse.

Now THAT I agree with.

Fred99

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#1006657 16-Mar-2014 12:05

Geektastic:
joker97: in Malaysia, "official" stories have "versions" and they tend to "evolve" or even "mutate" over time.

I don't believe a word any of them says.

consider them educated guesses at best, rumour mill at worse.

Now THAT I agree with.

I'd extend that "any of them" to include all governments, individuals, and corporations which have a vested interest in the outcome.
Look at what happened in "transparent" and "corruption-free" New Zealand following the crash of Flight 901.

mattwnz

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#1006684 16-Mar-2014 12:50

tdgeek:
mattwnz:
tdgeek: A theory mentioned was like the case when a terrorist brought a bomb on board. It exploded, killed one passenger who was sitting where the bomb was but the plane recovered. No one claimed it, so it was a test as the person they found who planted the bomb was a known terrorist. This may be a test, and they now know what efforts and tech are involved. And how to create super publicity

That is pretty much impossible, because pilots would have alerted ground control. Also things were intentionally disabled. I thought these days pilots were locked into the cockpit, so no one could get in, and if someone did, they have secret alert buttons.

If a person wished to force their way into the cockpit they would. Or, alert flight crew to tell the pilots that they demand entry or they will blow the plane up. They would disable the features that they did, and certainly a surprise entry would obviate any secret buttons. The aircraft went changed altitude markedly, and the transponders were disabled a bit later, so it all seems like force to me. All theory off course, with no known info

No, pretty much impossible since 911. The pilots would had at least some warning if it was a third party that had hijacked it. They only need a second to send an alert. Pretty sure the ground is alert when the doors are forced anyway. This is one reason the are investigating the pilot. But as 2 people were flying on fake passports, they would have to be at the top of the list too to be investigated again. But as this looks to be highly planned, you would think that the risk of getting caught on a fake passport would be too high.

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