Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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Forums › Politics › Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3221804 23-Apr-2024 12:58

thinkingtrex8848:

Rikkitic:

I get the feeling @thinkingtrex8848 is trying to employ sarcasm in some of their remarks.

It isn't working.

Definitely wasn't in the previous 2 posts replying to Sir1963 as soon as I learned there are some personal experience involved and I would never wish to cause any harm or disrespect, especially where I apologised for assuming incorrectly.

Other posts, sure - thanks, your feedback if whether sarcasm is working has been taken onboard and will strive to do better. Thanks again.

Try /s at the end to denote its sarcasm....it may help when you are off target somewhat.

thinkingtrex8848

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#3221806 23-Apr-2024 13:05

sir1963:

when you are off target somewhat.

It seems everyone picked up on it without any alarm bells or emojis or specifically stating..

So as far as hitting target..

ockel

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#3221831 23-Apr-2024 14:41

sir1963:

ockel:

Would love to see you have the discussion explaining to parents why their school cant access learning support for their kids cos the funding is used to provide free lunches to save you a little time and money.

I was a parent of a special needs child well before school lunches was a thing, and I can tell you now it has ALWAYS been underfunded and the lunches have nothing to do with it.

How about having proper sex education at schools (including LGBTQ+ needs), Talk about porn, Talk about how it is NOT real, Talk about peer pressure, and make it compulsory so NOT CHILD misses out on vital information
How about having FREE contraception available at schools, pharmacies, doctors, youth centres, etc.
How about stop punishing the kids, no child ever chose its parents, so blaming the parents so you can justify punishing the kids is just disgusting.

Wholeheartedly agree. But the free contraception should be funded by HealthNZ. Whether special needs has always been underfunded misses the point. There is a finite budget for Education that has to be priortised to the right outcome. Should it be used to fund programmes that dont improve education and should fall into another area as a worthwhile program (ranked against other programs within that budget for outcomes and effectiveness) or should it be focused on education.

When you can justify the spend on school lunches against educational programs then you can have intelligent conversations. Why is the Opposition spokesperson for Child Poverty not calling for it to be funded from elsewhere in the Budget? Why is the Childrens Commissioner not imploring the Minister for Social Development to adopt the program? If the voices only decry the Education Minister for cutting it then you clearly dont understand what the program is achieving relative to its targets.

Its low hanging fruit for the Education Minister to cut is it does have any education and attendance benefit. That doesnt say its not a good program, just not a good education funded program.

There was an article on 1News about improving attendance at a Far North school. It has measurable attendance improvements. It was funded by the school (and relatively expensive based on some scratching analysis) but better than school lunches across 25% of schools for a 4% attendance improvement in the lowest 10%. It would be a better program to fund as it actually does what its supposed to do. https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/04/11/how-a-school-boosted-attendance-in-region-with-worst-truancy-rates/

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#3221873 23-Apr-2024 15:52

Rikkitic:
How can feeding kids possibly be a bad idea?

Because the money could be used for something else that has more impact. I’d rather policies were based on facts than magical thinking or feels.

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#3221874 23-Apr-2024 16:03

Handle9:
Rikkitic:

How can feeding kids possibly be a bad idea?

Because the money could be used for something else that has more impact. I’d rather policies were based on facts than magical thinking or feels.

What has more 'impact' than feeding children?

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Rikkitic

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#3221875 23-Apr-2024 16:04

Handle9:
Rikkitic:

How can feeding kids possibly be a bad idea?

Because the money could be used for something else that has more impact. I’d rather policies were based on facts than magical thinking or feels.

Do you think growing up on junk food or no food doesn't have an impact? What is magical about ensuring developing bodies have adequate nutrition? I'd rather policies were based on something other than right-wing ideological obsessions or undoing things just because Labour did them or cutting budgets across the board with no understanding of the things being cut.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#3221876 23-Apr-2024 16:05

SaltyNZ:
Handle9:

Because the money could be used for something else that has more impact. I’d rather policies were based on facts than magical thinking or feels.

What has more 'impact' than feeding children?

In schools? More teachers.

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#3221877 23-Apr-2024 16:06

Yes well, the principal there is not impressed with the government's plan:

OneNews: Newman said the plan was "not going to improve anything" because those who read the attendance rates are "the ones that probably already have their kids in the school"

The article does not mention food or ask the principal's opinion of school lunch. It would be incorrect and silly to apply an average or to use this article as evidence for one thing or another except the improvement provided by transport for that particular school.

thinkingtrex8848

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#3221878 23-Apr-2024 16:08

Having a kid is a right. Feeding the kid is the govt's responsibility.

Handle9

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#3221879 23-Apr-2024 16:09

Rikkitic:
Handle9:

Because the money could be used for something else that has more impact. I’d rather policies were based on facts than magical thinking or feels.

Do you think growing up on junk food or no food doesn't have an impact? What is magical about ensuring developing bodies have adequate nutrition? I'd rather policies were based on something other than right-wing ideological obsessions or undoing things just because Labour did them or cutting budgets across the board with no understanding of the things being cut.

So blue bad red/green good is the level of rigour that should be applied as to whether a policy is effective?

There’s plenty of policies that work on both sides, there’s plenty of policies that don’t do what they were meant to do. If they don’t demonstrate an outcome it’s worth considering how else the money could be spent.

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#3221882 23-Apr-2024 16:21

Handle9:

In schools? More teachers.

Hungry kids don't learn and then have other behavioural issues as blood sugar levels drop.

There needs to be the ability to have class sizes as low as 5 students, for those that actually need that level of help, and this applies to the really bight kids too, they get bored, play up, get labeled as a trouble maker... Prisons are full of really smart people who copped that label early on.

ONE high needs student in a class can consume a LOT of teacher time simply because work needs to be prepared for their achievement level, teachers are already over worked during the day with all the "reports" and "benchmarks" etc they want (and ACT wants to make worse).

In Finland being a teacher is a very high paying job and very difficult to get into because they understand the impact education has on the children's lives as well as those in the community.

Schools need teachers who can help those that struggle (NOT the kids fault) AND be able to engage and extend the really bright kids. We also need to recognise that not all kids learn the same way, nor have the same abilities. But we are more geared towards the "battery hen" model.

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#3221894 23-Apr-2024 16:42

sir1963:

Handle9:

In schools? More teachers.

Hungry kids don't learn and then have other behavioural issues as blood sugar levels drop.

There needs to be the ability to have class sizes as low as 5 students, for those that actually need that level of help, and this applies to the really bight kids too, they get bored, play up, get labeled as a trouble maker... Prisons are full of really smart people who copped that label early on.

ONE high needs student in a class can consume a LOT of teacher time simply because work needs to be prepared for their achievement level, teachers are already over worked during the day with all the "reports" and "benchmarks" etc they want (and ACT wants to make worse).

In Finland being a teacher is a very high paying job and very difficult to get into because they understand the impact education has on the children's lives as well as those in the community.

Schools need teachers who can help those that struggle (NOT the kids fault) AND be able to engage and extend the really bright kids. We also need to recognise that not all kids learn the same way, nor have the same abilities. But we are more geared towards the "battery hen" model.

Uh ok. Meanwhile there is a finite amount of money and it should be used where it's most effective. I go back to the point which is that the lunches in schools hasn't demonstrated and significant impact on kids learning or attendance. It's worth consdering if there are better ways to use the money.

Rikkitic

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#3221898 23-Apr-2024 17:15

Handle9:

Uh ok. Meanwhile there is a finite amount of money and it should be used where it's most effective. I go back to the point which is that the lunches in schools hasn't demonstrated and significant impact on kids learning or attendance. It's worth consdering if there are better ways to use the money.

I have no objection to considering better ways to use the money. I do object to the blind assumption by some that just because they don't have the right tools or patience or approach to adequately measure a result, that justifies dismissing it out of hand.

Whether or not the money can be better used, there is no argument that kids need adequate nutrition, and if that is provided for, then that issue can be crossed off the list. Think of topping up a battery. When it is charged any extra is wasted, but at least you know the battery is charged and won't let you down when you need it.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#3221899 23-Apr-2024 17:32

Rikkitic:

Handle9:

Uh ok. Meanwhile there is a finite amount of money and it should be used where it's most effective. I go back to the point which is that the lunches in schools hasn't demonstrated and significant impact on kids learning or attendance. It's worth consdering if there are better ways to use the money.

I have no objection to considering better ways to use the money. I do object to the blind assumption by some that just because they don't have the right tools or patience or approach to adequately measure a result, that justifies dismissing it out of hand.

Whether or not the money can be better used, there is no argument that kids need adequate nutrition, and if that is provided for, then that issue can be crossed off the list. Think of topping up a battery. When it is charged any extra is wasted, but at least you know the battery is charged and won't let you down when you need it.

If you are making the claim that it's a worthwhile policy but we can't measure any improvement then you are back to doing policy by feels. It's as silly as the law and order nuts who claim that longer sentences will automatically reduce crime.

The policy would have had an expected outcome otherwise it should never have been approved. What is it's effectiveness in acheiving that outcome? That is what should be considered if we are taking an evidence based approach.

sir1963

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#3221904 23-Apr-2024 18:19

Handle9:

If you are making the claim that it's a worthwhile policy but we can't measure any improvement then you are back to doing policy by feels. It's as silly as the law and order nuts who claim that longer sentences will automatically reduce crime.

The policy would have had an expected outcome otherwise it should never have been approved. What is it's effectiveness in acheiving that outcome? That is what should be considered if we are taking an evidence based approach.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/513461/government-funding-ends-for-15-year-long-growing-up-in-new-zealand-project#:~:text=The%20Growing%20Up%20in%20New%20Zealand%20project%20describes%20itself%20as,the%20children%20were%20even%20born .

""We're starting to get insights directly from young people themselves about their schooling, their health, their wellbeing, their mental health," she said."

15 years and more, that is how long it can take for this kind of research.
But lets spend billions on roads, kill public transport while we are at it...oh wait we are...

I saw a report on slashdot that said by 2050 its going to cost 6 times as much for climate change than it would cost to actually do something now

https://science.slashdot.org/story/24/04/17/1645219/average-world-incomes-to-drop-by-nearly-a-fifth-by-2050-study-says

Will governments do anything... many won't because it will impact their chance of being voted in again.

Short term thinking, consequences be damned.

And where is the evidence based approach for 3 strikes , in spite of it costing many millions of dollars ?

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