Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#3026366 24-Jan-2023 14:52

I suspect most people don't realise how misogynistic and hateful some individuals can be online. Because many don't see this happening (because they aren't on social platforms or don't read reports) there's an idea that some people are just doing political maneuvers.

How data shines a light on the online hatred for Jacinda Ardern | Stuff.co.nz

Since the Prime Minister resigned last week, there has been considerable debate about whether she (along with other women) receives more vitriol online than male politicians and other public figures.

As part of our research into hate, extremism and social instability in New Zealand, we collect anonymous posting data from various online platforms.

This includes platforms where the darkest and most extreme posting often occurs: Gab, 4chan, selected New Zealand Telegram channels, Reddit, and 8kun.

We use a range of techniques to include only those posts we are reasonably sure are written in New Zealand. We include posts from 2019 to 2022, although the quantity of posts collected increased markedly from late 2021.

We counted the total number of posts about Prime Minister Ardern and six other leading politicians and bureaucrats, both men and women, from parties on the left and right, some with prominent positions in the fight against Covid, some not.

What we found was that the Prime Minister faced online vitriol at a rate between 50 and 90 times higher than any other high-profile figure.

While the other individuals were each mentioned in between 200 and 400 posts over the study period, the Prime Minister was mentioned in over 18,000 posts. This was 92% of the total body of posts mentioning any of these individuals.

Of the posts our natural language tools classify as strongly negative, angry, sexually explicit or toxic, those mentioning the PM made up 93% of the total – 5438 posts were particularly abusive in this way.

The other individuals referenced each had fewer than 100 such angry or threatening posts directed at them.

A striking aspect of the posting mentioning the Prime Minister was that it was largely consistent across the period. While for the other politicians and bureaucrats such posting generally peaks in response to events and then drops, posting targeting the Prime Minister was constant, incessant.

Also striking was that the average negativity, anger and toxicity targeted at the Prime Minister was increasing in the last six months of 2022.

Rather than showing signs of subsiding as Covid era restrictions were lifted and New Zealand returned to a form of normality, abuse of the Prime Minister was rising once more.

There is a lack of data on this topic and on other issues related to hate and extremism in New Zealand, so it is unsurprising that many are unaware of the levels and toxicity of the abuse which occurs.

The Whole Truth: Do female politicians get worse abuse? | Stuff.co.nz

Since 2019, police have recorded more than 100 threats against Jacinda Ardern. At least eight have been serious enough to land in court.

And she’s not alone. In 2018, a survey of Kiwi women MPs found 44% had received threats of death, rape, beatings, or abduction.

During the 2020 election campaign, a Twitter bot found 4000 'toxic' messages about New Zealand women candidates, with most targeting Ardern, then National Party leader Judith Collins and Green MP Chlöe Swarbrick.

Nine out of 10 hateful posts tracked in darkest corners of the internet targeted Ardern - new study | Stuff.co.nz

“This should be a bipartisan concern, if we want a healthier New Zealand.”

Green Party co-leader James Shaw, who was attacked while walking to work in 2019, said the volume of hate against Ardern was another reminder that abuse of politicians was “a serious problem that strikes at the heart of our democracy”.

“Not only is this causing harm to those who are targeted, it is likely discouraging other smart, passionate, and dedicated people from entering politics, which is something that harms us all.”

tdgeek

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#3026423 24-Jan-2023 15:11

freitasm:

I suspect most people don't realise how misogynistic and hateful some individuals can be online. Because many don't see this happening (because they aren't on social platforms or don't read reports)

I fall into that group. I know it happens, us intelligent humans do that. I wasn't aware it was as rife or as harsh as those reports you gave (which I had read recently)

We all know there are bad apples everywhere, but rotten to the core, wow, its pretty unreal

Varkk

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#3026433 24-Jan-2023 15:39

Yes, all politicians get abuse, but the for the women it seems to be kicked up another level in the intensity and amount. Also something was pointed out to me today, but doesn't seem to be prominent enough in the reporting is often for Ardern in particular it isn't for anything she has done, but instead because of things that she has been accused of with no basis in fact. Which makes the Rachel Smalley piece trying to shift some of the blame on to Ardern and the Government even more disingenuous.

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#3026444 24-Jan-2023 16:00

We should remember that almost all of this nasty stuff is on non mainstream locations such as 4chan, reddit, Gab and so on that 90% of NZers would never have even heard of or would be in group membership of. Certainly Jacinda and other public figures wouldn't go near these sites.

Nasty people are certainly out there but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that they are restricted just the right or left. Anonymity encourages a certain type to emote in a way they never would in person or under their own name.

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#3026460 24-Jan-2023 16:26

johno1234:

We should remember that almost all of this nasty stuff is on non mainstream locations such as 4chan, reddit, Gab and so on that 90% of NZers would never have even heard of or would be in group membership of. Certainly Jacinda and other public figures wouldn't go near these sites.

Nasty people are certainly out there but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that they are restricted just the right or left. Anonymity encourages a certain type to emote in a way they never would in person or under their own name.

Not only online. On the streets too. Some of those people accusing the PM of doing things that she didn't do were marching down streets in Wellington and other cities.

Like those idiots driving "sheriff" cars, or people saying the PM and other politicians should be executed for something or another. Are you discounting those too?

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#3026636 24-Jan-2023 19:08

johno1234:

We should remember that almost all of this nasty stuff is on non mainstream locations such as 4chan, reddit, Gab and so on that 90% of NZers would never have even heard of or would be in group membership of. Certainly Jacinda and other public figures wouldn't go near these sites.

Nasty people are certainly out there but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that they are restricted just the right or left. Anonymity encourages a certain type to emote in a way they never would in person or under their own name.

100% agree with that. But (and there is always a but :-) )

She is in a government that for various reasons which we wont go into, is under the hammer. Thats life and thats politics. But if she was an older white male, that aggrevious dissent would be a lot more muted.

But she's female and young politically. That should not be an easy target. I feel she has been great in disasters. JK was similar in the EQ, a calm voice.

But she is female, young and white, that is the issue

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#3026637 24-Jan-2023 19:13

I am still waiting to hear from some of those who have been so engaged here in explicating all the perceived failures of her government. So far the usual suspects have been noticeably silent.

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#3026642 24-Jan-2023 19:22

The leader, MF, diverted that to the Chris Hipkins thread. Which is actually supposed to be about Chris Hipkins, not directly Labour Government failures

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=184&topicid=303171

Rikkitic

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#3026646 24-Jan-2023 19:34

I would think they would still be monitoring this thread. I think they just don't know how to respond.

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GV27

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#3026809 25-Jan-2023 07:18

The Hipkins thread is more relevant now for issues of the actual government, given that the potential changes in direction he takes are almost as interesting as the ones he doesn't take. I can understand focus shifting there now.

I will take the opportunity on Ardern's last day to make this bet: that out of all the people bitterly disappointed that they could not effect greater change in the most basic and substantive meaningful areas, like child poverty, affordable housing and so on, I think the one who will be the most disappointed would be Ardern herself.

Hopefully without the interruptions of Covid and lockdowns, whoever follows can get more cut-through with policy implementation than she did, or felt she could going forward. How that happens and who does what is probably a matter for the Hipkins thread.

networkn

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#3026816 25-Jan-2023 07:41

Perceived failures? You really are unbelievable.

I am so sorry that my timeframe to respond to this portion of this thread didn't meet your expectation. I am overseas on holiday and whilst I have been responding to some things as time allows, which is sometimes in the middle of the night for me as jetlag wakes me, I feel I have made how I feel about extremism in all areas very clear.

I do not support the people who abuse or harass others. I don't support Jacinda Ardern being called names, I have not called her names. I have spoken about her failures as leader of the Labour Party and as a politician. You are quick to point out the negative behaviour towards her because she is a women, but honestly, would you be as supportive of and as massive of a fan of 'hers' if she was an old fat white male? I have seen you calling out white male politicians as long as I have known you here. Not for a specific failure, but just white and male and usually older. Where was your condemnation of the death threats against Trump and his youngest son? When Kathy Griffen pulled Trumps severed head on TV, were you outraged? Trump disgusts me for his behavior but what I see here is a matter of personal like or dislike as to whether behavior is defended or not. It's either wrong whomever it's targeted against, or it's not wrong. (its wrong regardless). I don't recall a similar vein of conversation started when people got stuck into Key for being/looking jewish, nor did I see many people calling out the death theats Key got, or the social media targeting of his son and daughter.

So in summary, no I don't agree with the extreme behaviour I see toward Jacinda or any other politician. I feel that the death threats and violence threats are disgusting and those who make them should be punished to the full extent of the law. Happy now?

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#3026820 25-Jan-2023 08:04

networkn:

So in summary, no I don't agree with the extreme behaviour I see toward Jacinda or any other politician. I feel that the death threats and violence threats are disgusting and those who make them should be punished to the full extent of the law. Happy now?

First, I don’t doubt your full throated condemnation of threats or extremist comments and I never have. I know you would never endorse this kind of thing. You misunderstood my comment.

Second, I wasn’t specifically targeting you, but several posters who have again (since JA’s announcement) been making a point of rehashing all of the government’s 'failings' here.

My comment was in reference to this post by @freitasm citing the michaelwest.com.au figures on our government’s performance. I was wondering what the most vociferous government critics here thought about it. I found it striking that there was no response whatsoever. This is what I was referring to, not the vicious attacks on Jacinda Ardern.

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networkn

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#3026824 25-Jan-2023 08:36

I've never challenged employment numbers. I do wonder how they work out inflation numbers. Can you think of a single thing you have purchased in the last 6 months that is ONLY 7.3% more expensive than it was a year prior? Our grocery bill is up 20%, our airfares were 35% more. In order to meet 7.3% something has to be cheaper to balance it out. Nothing I've bought in NZ is cheaper than it was a year ago.

Regarding housing. My complaint was they promised 100K and delivered 1% of that maybe. What did the Government specifically do (that any Government wouldn't have done in it's place) to affect 'housing starts' (which policy?). We still have high levels of people living in cars (or living in hotels at Tax Payers expense). Child Poverty isn't better. We have spent BILLIONs on policies that will likely never eventuate or be canned.

That article does nothing to challenge the criticism of the Government by *me*. I don't really care what others complaints are, but that article doesn't address the concerns I've raised over failed policies.

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#3026834 25-Jan-2023 08:51

networkn:

Regarding housing. My complaint was they promised 100K and delivered 1% of that maybe. What did the Government specifically do (that any Government wouldn't have done in it's place) to affect 'housing starts' (which policy?). We still have high levels of people living in cars (or living in hotels at Tax Payers expense). Child Poverty isn't better. We have spent BILLIONs on policies that will likely never eventuate or be canned.

The irony being the huge increases in 'approvals' has been the result of the UP process put in place by National in 2016 especially in Auckland, where they threatened to legislate over the Council if it didn't implement it. I'm not sure if 'approvals' is 'consents' but I seem to remember JA quipping to Bill English that she 'couldn't live in a consent' as a way of saying it wasn't happening fast enough, so I note that she seems to have set quite a high bar for herself at this point, given that a consent turning into an actual building is very much contingent on financing and affordability, which are both going backwards as construction costs and interest rates rise.

I do have to give them credit for the uncorking of building heights along PT corridors as this was a great idea but they managed to undo it by then upzoning land across entire cities, meaning that there was no longer any concentration of it around the infrastructure to actually support it. Like the UP, the flow on effects would have taken some time, but they would have happened. Now we just have even more incentive to concentrate housing where land is the cheapest (sprawl, poorer suburbs), as opposed to where the services to cater for them already exist (central, overwhelmingly wealthier ones).

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#3026874 25-Jan-2023 10:04

This is an interesting article (Paywall) arguing the other side: Opinion | Jacinda Ardern, the Star Who Didn’t Quite Deliver - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

But over time, many Kiwis came to feel that, despite her international image, Jacinda’s rhetoric was never quite matched by substance.

Early in her first term I hosted a group of British and American political strategists who came to New Zealand hoping to learn the secrets of this charismatic leader’s success. One of them asked Ms. Ardern, “How would you beat yourself?” It’s a tough question, so they answered it for her: The opposition could spotlight her star quality overseas and ask Kiwis, “But what has she done for you?”

This is not a question the rest of the world was asking. But by that time, after less than a year in office, Kiwis were.

Then came Christchurch. Thrust into the global eye, she rose to the moment and the world applauded her grace in responding to an unspeakable act of terrorism. Of the Muslim victims, she said: “They have chosen to make New Zealand their home, and it is their home. They are us.”

When Covid arrived, any sensible government would likely have closed the border. It’s easy to do for one of the most remote countries in the world. She went further, locking down the country and confining everyone but essential workers to our homes in an attempt to banish the virus from our shores.

Lockdown was possible only with the consent of the governed. No one liked it, but most of us agreed with it. We were relieved that thousands were not dying, and her government was re-elected with a colossal mandate in 2020. But those tough Covid policies led to growing division, spurred conspiracy theorists and strained the economy.

She was originally elected on a promise to reduce inequality and, more importantly, child poverty. “If you ask me why I’m in politics, my answer will be simple: children,” she said.

But New Zealand today feels as unequal as when Ms. Ardern was elected.

The proportion of Kiwi children living in “material hardship” has indeed ticked down, to 11 percent in 2021 from 12.7 percent in 2017. That’s welcome, but hardly transformational. A family earning average wages cannot afford to buy the average home in many provinces. A signature election promise to build 100,000 new homes has been scrapped after the plan became mired in delays and confusion. Thousands of homeless families are living in motel units.

This isn’t all Ms. Ardern’s fault. Soaring housing prices predated her, and New Zealand isn’t the only place with this problem. Her government kept wages paid and businesses going during the pandemic with stimulus checks and low interest rates. But that has caused a massive transfer of wealth to asset owners.

A poll taken just before she announced her resignation showed that for the first time more New Zealanders (41 percent) had an unfavorable opinion of her than a favorable one (40 percent). Another poll showed 64 percent believed the country has become more divided in the past few years.

Ms. Ardern’s star still shines brightly overseas, and her time on the global stage may just be beginning. Since borders reopened to travel as the pandemic eased, her international miles have increased in inverse proportion to her government’s popularity. For someone who has never really had to fight through personal political adversity at home until now, it looks better to international fans to resign as an undefeated leader than to lose her bid for a third term in government.

On balance, she deserves credit for knowing when to throw in the towel if her heart is no longer in it. But “Jacinda” leaves with much of her promised agenda unfulfilled. It’s been thrilling to be on the world map. But in the end, her years in power were like those maps that left New Zealand off: flawed and incomplete.

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