Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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#1944718 22-Jan-2018 12:32

Pumpedd:

MikeB4:

Pumpedd:

It seems that a few people here who don't agree with others comments and tend to be left of the political spectrum in their views, stop commentating on politics and lower themselves to negative comments at a personal level against posters. Sad, but expected.

Oh the irony of this post

There we go again Mike....all you do of late is try to make things personal.

Wasn't personal I am just amused at the irony of the post in a thread that is 90% anti "so called left wing" and Labour and negative at a personal level against the PM.

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#1944719 22-Jan-2018 12:32

MikeB4:

I believe that if the partners John Key or Bill English had a child while they were in office and say John Key took six parental leave this conversation would not be happening.

I am sorry as I don't quite understand this. That would be the same as JA's partner having a child.

IF JA does her job as PM to a very high standard than that is fine and what she is paid for. She chose to be PM, and she chose to be a mum.

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#1944720 22-Jan-2018 12:33

MikeB4:
I believe that if the partners John Key or Bill English had a child while they were in office and say John Key took six parental leave this conversation would not be happening.

Father's by nature generally play a lesser role in bringing up a child. I mean, I don't think they can breast feed for example... Lol

If the Key's had had a baby my expectations of the PM would have been just as high. I would have expected him to have put in a lot of work in his role still as PM. Of course there's no risk of complications with the male either... Just facts of nature.

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#1944721 22-Jan-2018 12:37

MikeB4:

I believe that if the partners John Key or Bill English had a child while they were in office and say John Key took six parental leave this conversation would not be happening.

I just can't imagine it happening, even if they were entitled to it.

I have a traditional view that doesn't always sit well with the modern view. Both my kids, I took time off for a few days to get my wife settled at home with our babies. I needed to be sharp at work, so when I could, I did what I could, but ultimately we decided early on when we wanted kids, she would stay at home. She was considerably more qualified (and equipped) to look after our babies, so I went to work and she stayed home.

I do believe that no matter what anyone says, the impact of having a baby is much more significant emotionally, physically and psychologically for the woman.

Leaving us with Kelvin and Winston whilst she takes time off to have her baby seems cruel and unusual punishment. I would suggest if transparency would had occurred, Labour would have lost the election by a far greater margin, and I think JA knows it, hence she didn't say anything.

I'd love to know what part of Winstons decision making was contributed to by these facts (if at all). It would give some interesting insight into the man.

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#1944722 22-Jan-2018 12:38

networkn:

That's kind of an interesting statement. I don't dislike Labour as a party. If their policies were in the best interest of NZ, I'd have voted for them.

It's a more than a little hypocritical to suggest others don't rag on Labour "just because" when you have just admitted you rag on National just "because".

The problem is Labours policies, which were clearly not costed despite their assurances they were. I believe they never intended to do any of this stuff, it was just to hide the same old Labour nonsense such as an unfair balance in the workplace. Still no childrens program proper costing or plan has been announced. Don't forget that JA said this would be her top priority and the reason she is in politics!

I feel that you would let the country burn to the ground under Labour refusing to admit any fault on their part, just because it's Labour.

I have tried to be balanced, I have pointed out the areas in their policy I think are worth doing, even though most of those have now been replaced with much weaker versions of them, you have not admitted one fault in all the time that Labour has been in office, everything is explained away as "ok" because "they are in office and that's all that matters".

Different for the sake of different, isn't better. Better is better. I have not seen evidence yet to suggest that Labour is better. The policies they have passed have been poorly thought out (providing free education without any limits of common sense). I would bet that the result of this policy will be a huge tax payer burden and a small number of better-educated people, and a large number of drop outs and failed tertiary education attempts.

One thing Labour (and a lot of people) don't understand is that humans don't value what they don't have to sacrifice or work for. Handing out free educations will mean that most people will not value it as much.

Wow. Where to start? I don't 'rag' on National. If you go through my posts, you will find that I actually praised some of the things they have done. I have repeatedly stated that I don't think they are the personification of all evil.

I tend to take all policy announcements, from Labour as well as National, with a grain of salt because what matters to me is what people do, not what they say they will do, and I doubt any government has ever actually done what it says it will. I don't like National overall because I don't like its behaviour, not because I don't like its policies. Conservatives seem to lack vision and imagination. If cows make money, then we need more cows. Never mind the damage they do or the other problems down the track. It is always about money money money. I don't dispute the importance of a sound economy, or the need for national income to pay for social benefits like health care. But money isn't everything. It isn't the only thing. It isn't the most important thing. I get a little weary of those who can't see past that.

You are always putting words in my mouth and thoughts in my head. The part I have highlighted is particularly offensive. You just make up whatever you think suits your argument. You can say anything you like about what you think or believe, but quit making unsubstantiated assumptions about my thoughts and beliefs. You don't have a clue.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MikeB4

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#1944724 22-Jan-2018 12:45

Pumpedd:

MikeB4:

I believe that if the partners John Key or Bill English had a child while they were in office and say John Key took six parental leave this conversation would not be happening.

I am sorry as I don't quite understand this. That would be the same as JA's partner having a child.

IF JA does her job as PM to a very high standard than that is fine and what she is paid for. She chose to be PM, and she chose to be a mum.

"That would be the same as JA's partner having a child." No , it is say JKs partner having a child and JK taking parental leave which incidentally is in line with parental leaver provisions.

So what is your view on any women taking parental leave? or any parent taking parental leave?

MikeB4

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#1944725 22-Jan-2018 12:47

rjt123:
MikeB4:

I believe that if the partners John Key or Bill English had a child while they were in office and say John Key took six parental leave this conversation would not be happening.

Father's by nature generally play a lesser role in bringing up a child. I mean, I don't think they can breast feed for example... Lol

If the Key's had had a baby my expectations of the PM would have been just as high. I would have expected him to have put in a lot of work in his role still as PM. Of course there's no risk of complications with the male either... Just facts of nature.

what ????? nonsense. Any parent can take parental leave and both parents can take equal roles, we did. And yes males can feed newborns breast milk.

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#1944728 22-Jan-2018 12:54

MikeB4:

Any parent can take parental leave and both parents can take equal roles, we did.

But under Labour's new legislation, only one parent can take paid parental leave.

rjt123

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#1944732 22-Jan-2018 13:02

MikeB4:

rjt123:
MikeB4:

I believe that if the partners John Key or Bill English had a child while they were in office and say John Key took six parental leave this conversation would not be happening.

Father's by nature generally play a lesser role in bringing up a child. I mean, I don't think they can breast feed for example... Lol

If the Key's had had a baby my expectations of the PM would have been just as high. I would have expected him to have put in a lot of work in his role still as PM. Of course there's no risk of complications with the male either... Just facts of nature.

what ????? nonsense. Any parent can take parental leave and both parents can take equal roles, we did. And yes males can feed newborns breast milk.

Well its a fact of life that the mother has to "make" the breast milk which takes energy. For sure either parent can feed it, but generally the mother would wherever practicable. Theoretically parents can take an equal role, however, in reality, generally (yes, I'm making a generalisation) - but sometimes reality takes precedent over theory.

Yeah for sure both parents are entitles to parental leave, if Key had a baby I would expect him to forgo his parental leave entitlement. Harsh? Yep, but PM ain't no ordinary job.

(Edit: I'd allow him a week's leave... but I don't think the PM really has the liberty of a true holiday, the same as a standard employee does).

MikeB4

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#1944740 22-Jan-2018 13:16

rjt123:

Well its a fact of life that the mother has to "make" the breast milk which takes energy. For sure either parent can feed it, but generally the mother would wherever practicable. Theoretically parents can take an equal role, however, in reality, generally (yes, I'm making a generalisation) - but sometimes reality takes precedent over theory.

Yeah for sure both parents are entitles to parental leave, if Key had a baby I would expect him to forgo his parental leave entitlement. Harsh? Yep, but PM ain't no ordinary job.

(Edit: I'd allow him a week's leave... but I don't think the PM really has the liberty of a true holiday, the same as a standard employee does).

The comment I bolded takes me back to a comment I made in an earlier post, that I feel many do not understand how government works. Do you really believe that a PM is on leave when on leave?

rjt123

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#1944747 22-Jan-2018 13:27

MikeB4:
rjt123:

Well its a fact of life that the mother has to "make" the breast milk which takes energy. For sure either parent can feed it, but generally the mother would wherever practicable. Theoretically parents can take an equal role, however, in reality, generally (yes, I'm making a generalisation) - but sometimes reality takes precedent over theory.

Yeah for sure both parents are entitles to parental leave, if Key had a baby I would expect him to forgo his parental leave entitlement. Harsh? Yep, but PM ain't no ordinary job.

(Edit: I'd allow him a week's leave... but I don't think the PM really has the liberty of a true holiday, the same as a standard employee does).

The comment I bolded takes me back to a comment I made in an earlier post, that I feel many do not understand how government works. Do you really believe that a PM is on leave when on leave?

No I don't believe that they are truly on leave, even though they "say" thyey are on "holiday" - which is what I was implying in my previous post. Which is why I wouldn't object in the same way if JK's wife had had a baby. Because although he may take leave: A) it wouldn't need to be as long B) he would still be essentially acting as the PM, albeit behind the scenes.

On the other hand, it is highly likely that JA will actually need to take significant leave and also probably won't have the same capacity to "run the country" from at home for the time she is on leave. Which leaves Winston in charge. Not good.

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#1944779 22-Jan-2018 14:11

There sure are a lot of men here who have been through childbirth and know exactly what it is like to do a demanding job with a small baby. I am reminded of Victorian doctors (male, of course) pronouncing about female 'vapours' and the weaker sex and hysteria and all the other afflictions of being a woman about which they, of course, knew so much, being superior men and having studied it all under other experts who were, of course, also men.

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#1944782 22-Jan-2018 14:21

Rikkitic:

There sure are a lot of men here who have been through childbirth and know exactly what it is like to do a demanding job with a small baby. I am reminded of Victorian doctors (male, of course) pronouncing about female 'vapours' and the weaker sex and hysteria and all the other afflictions of being a woman about which they, of course, knew so much, being superior men and having studied it all under other experts who were, of course, also men.

You really are something. I have 2 kids, I saw and helped my wife raise them. I saw the physical, emotional and physiological toll it took. I am pretty confident my wife would gladly tell you she would not have been capable of doing both the PM's job and her job as a parent, justice.

Since you called us out on it, are you any more qualified to make these judgements? You seem supremely confident this "amazing" human will have no difficulty, so I presume you have some experience in which to draw upon?

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#1944783 22-Jan-2018 14:21

Rikkitic:

There sure are a lot of men here who have been through childbirth and know exactly what it is like to do a demanding job with a small baby. I am reminded of Victorian doctors (male, of course) pronouncing about female 'vapours' and the weaker sex and hysteria and all the other afflictions of being a woman about which they, of course, knew so much, being superior men and having studied it all under other experts who were, of course, also men.

I have certainly met women with similar viewpoints. I've also met plenty of women who had the view they could do anything and everything at once, right up until the baby arrived. It's not a viewpoint solely reserved for men.

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#1944786 22-Jan-2018 14:28

And just a reminder - before someone gets their Banhammer from Asgard - that we should try hard to play the ball not the man...! Always a risk in politics, I know, but FUG and all that.

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