What could/should NZ do about the Kiwi detainees.

Forums › Off topic › What could/should NZ do about the Kiwi detainees.

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#1427779 13-Nov-2015 22:16

DizzyD:
joker97:
MikeB4:
DizzyD:
sir1963:
joker97: In the eyes of Australian law, Kiwis are legal aliens, non residents, without the rights of residents.

Unfortunately that is not clear to Kiwis who think they are residents, called residents but legally as good as aliens.

There is a simple way. Become Permanent Residents and then citizens when eligible.

Except Australia has made this significantly more difficult for NZers.

What crap.

Its easy for Kiwis to get into Aus. Just arrive at border, show your passport and you in.
You can even work. Try arrving in Australia from South Africa, China, the USA, UK without a visa.

Its this special relationship that is complicating things. Nothing is stopping Kiwis from applying for PR/Citizenship once in Aus. IMO its probably time that this special visa category for Kiwis was scrapped. Ungrateful lot.

Kiwis are being treated not as friends by Australia, maybe we should return the honor and treat like for like.

Totally agree. Australians can come here and get free education and free social services and free student allowance. And can even vote.

(i could be wrong though, but when I was a student looking at options, pretty sure that was the case)

Australians don't flock to NZ ;-)

Bit of a difference.

I don't see that as relevant

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#1427783 13-Nov-2015 22:45

sir1963:
joker97: In the eyes of Australian law, Kiwis are legal aliens, non residents, without the rights of residents.

Unfortunately that is not clear to Kiwis who think they are residents, called residents but legally as good as aliens.

There is a simple way. Become Permanent Residents and then citizens when eligible.

Except Australia has made this significantly more difficult for NZers.

More difficult than for anyone else, or just equality of treatment?

It's not that easy to get it here either - ask anyone who has done it.

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#1427784 13-Nov-2015 22:51

sir1963:
I would be more comfortable knowing that a government worked well within the law, and more importantly allowed the police and the courts to do their job without political interference.

"reasonably suspects" is a long way from proof, hell people have even been freed from prison as new evidence has proven a jury of 12 has been wrong. What would the minister do here, deport them because for the last x many years they had been associating with criminals while wrongly convicted in prison.

Whats next, throwing anyone of the muslim faith out on the suspicion they might break the law ?

As I linked previously, NZ has similar conditions in their "character requirements" - if the Minister decides you're a risk they can reject your visa application without you having committed a crime. The UK have similar rules and I'd imagine most countries would have these conditions (but I've not checked).

I don't agree with using Christmas Island, I don't see the point of it and I agree with most of the points made about it - but my sympathy is with the genuine refugee applicants that have to be there while they wait to hear if they'll be accepted.

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#1427790 13-Nov-2015 23:40

I have watched Aussie cop tv and NZ cop tv.
NZ: Cop smiles, makes a joke, apologises, get spat on, smiles at the end
Aus: Rambo face, belittles whoever is being stopped, reads out the law of what happens if they disobeys, (figuratively) beats them into submission

Which one's better? Neither. At least it's not like the States where if cop wants to shoot, cop will find a reason to shoot.

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#1427810 14-Nov-2015 01:21

Geektastic:
More difficult than for anyone else, or just equality of treatment?

It's not that easy to get it here either - ask anyone who has done it.

NZers are treated exactly like everyone else for PR applications, barring only that we can work in the country while we wait for the paperwork to happen. There's a couple of visas we cannot get because it's pointless though.

MikeB4

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#1427831 14-Nov-2015 07:11

joker97: I have watched Aussie cop tv and NZ cop tv.
NZ: Cop smiles, makes a joke, apologises, get spat on, smiles at the end
Aus: Rambo face, belittles whoever is being stopped, reads out the law of what happens if they disobeys, (figuratively) beats them into submission

Which one's better? Neither. At least it's not like the States where if cop wants to shoot, cop will find a reason to shoot.

That is about as accurate as using Shortland Street, Neighbours or Mike Hosking to demonstrate real life.

DizzyD

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#1427834 14-Nov-2015 07:31

joker97: I have watched Aussie cop tv and NZ cop tv.
NZ: Cop smiles, makes a joke, apologises, get spat on, smiles at the end
Aus: Rambo face, belittles whoever is being stopped, reads out the law of what happens if they disobeys, (figuratively) beats them into submission

Which one's better? Neither. At least it's not like the States where if cop wants to shoot, cop will find a reason to shoot.

Which cop gets the most respect?
As far as I know, In Aus its a criminal offence to spit on, or swear at a cop. Not sure why we don't have the same law here.

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MikeB4

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#1427836 14-Nov-2015 07:50

DizzyD:
joker97: I have watched Aussie cop tv and NZ cop tv.
NZ: Cop smiles, makes a joke, apologises, get spat on, smiles at the end
Aus: Rambo face, belittles whoever is being stopped, reads out the law of what happens if they disobeys, (figuratively) beats them into submission

Which one's better? Neither. At least it's not like the States where if cop wants to shoot, cop will find a reason to shoot.

Which cop gets the most respect?
As far as I know, In Aus its a criminal offence to spit on, or swear at a cop. Not sure why we don't have the same law here.

It's illegal here to do it to anyone

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#1430402 18-Nov-2015 14:14

joker97: In the eyes of Australian law, Kiwis are legal aliens, non residents, without the rights of residents.

Unfortunately that is not clear to Kiwis who think they are residents, called residents but legally as good as aliens.

There is a simple way. Become Permanent Residents and then citizens when eligible.

It's not that simple.

Go and have a look at what's required to get enough points to succeed in applying for permanent residence in Australia.

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#1430428 18-Nov-2015 14:46

Why should we do anything? Other than copy and deport our overseas offenders too

Rikkitic

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#1430439 18-Nov-2015 15:14

Diplomacy is always about subtle hints and couched language. I always wonder in cases like this what would happen if someone did something utterly insane and unpredictable, like break diplomatic relations with Australia and declare war. There is a funny film called The Mouse that Roared in which a tiny European principality declares war on America and wins. If we declared war on Australia, would they even react or would they be too stunned with disbelief to do anything?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#1430470 18-Nov-2015 16:11

Rikkitic: Diplomacy is always about subtle hints and couched language. I always wonder in cases like this what would happen if someone did something utterly insane and unpredictable, like break diplomatic relations with Australia and declare war. There is a funny film called The Mouse that Roared in which a tiny European principality declares war on America and wins. If we declared war on Australia, would they even react or would they be too stunned with disbelief to do anything?

Declaring war implies you will enter active conflict.

I suspect we may (and that is only a may) last a couple of hours against Australia in actual combat. They could, for example, pound Wellington into rubble in a couple of hours using their offensive aircraft, of which we have none. They also have submarine ability to attack our own Navy.

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#1430480 18-Nov-2015 16:20

Geektastic:
Rikkitic: Diplomacy is always about subtle hints and couched language. I always wonder in cases like this what would happen if someone did something utterly insane and unpredictable, like break diplomatic relations with Australia and declare war. There is a funny film called The Mouse that Roared in which a tiny European principality declares war on America and wins. If we declared war on Australia, would they even react or would they be too stunned with disbelief to do anything?

Declaring war implies you will enter active conflict.

I suspect we may (and that is only a may) last a couple of hours against Australia in actual combat. They could, for example, pound Wellington into rubble in a couple of hours using their offensive aircraft, of which we have none. They also have submarine ability to attack our own Navy.

Didn't our Army just get a whole pile of new Septic Tanks ?