ARRRGH!! All aboard mateys.... so what do you call a pirate?

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tangerz

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Topic # 147454 19-Jun-2014 19:55

Have been wondering lately what other geekzoners consider a pirate to be? There seems to me to be quite a range of opinion from numerous posts across different topics so thought I'd pose a few questions to see how you rate them for piracy.

I have always tried (by and large) to find legal sources for all my content. Though at times I have certainly been outside the 'letter of the law' I have always tried to keep within my own 'ethical' limits.... a kind of personal 'spirit of the law' if you will.

I know this is going to vary from person to person but just interested to see what others think and see if there is some kind of consensus.

Answer the questions two-fold: First, do you consider it piracy? Second, do you do it/have you done it? (Give reasons/qualifications/justifications if you like!)

1- Ripping a CD borrowed from a friend?
2- Ripping a hired DVD/Blu-ray?
3- Ripping a DVD/Blu-ray you have purchased? (ie for playback on a tablet/mobile phone/media server)
4- Downloading/torrenting the latest movie blockbuster?
5- Downlaoding/torrenting the latest episode of your favourite TV show THAT PLAYS HERE ON FREEVIEW, but hasn't aired here yet?
6- Downlaoding/torrenting an episode of a show THAT PLAYS HERE ON FREEVIEW that has already aired here?
7- Downloading/torrenting any episode of your fovourite TV show THAT PLAYS HERE ON SKY?
8- Using PAID FOR overseas TV/Movie streaming services? (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon etc.)
9- Using FREE overseas TV streaming services? (BBC iPlayer, ITV Player etc.)
10- Downloading music videos (or any videos) from YouTube?

There are probably other examples that you may think of but I think these give you the jist of what I'm on about...

My answers...

1- Yes and Yes. (Though if I like the CD then I'll 'legitimize' my rip by buying my own copy.)
2- Yes and No. This is definite piracy in my books.
3- No and Yes. I know format shifting video is illegal in NZ but I have no problem in doing so. Remember so was format shifting CDs not that long ago... the law needs to catch up.
4- Yes and No... Again, definite piracy.
5- Yes and No. I PVR shows I watch as they air on Freeview... I feel no need to see them the moment they air in the US!
6- Yes and Yes. If I miss an episode on the PVR I'll download it... Unless the OnDemand catchup services are working... which is usually never!
7- Yes and No. Definite piracy. This is a big reason I have Sky... how does anyone who doesn't have Sky LEGITIMATELY watch Game of Thrones??? (Not counting waiting for the Blu-ray release)
8- No and No. Only reason I don't is because our internet connection is not fast/stable enough.
9- Yes and No. Although I say yes to piracy on this I really don't see much harm. I probably would if our connection was up to it!
10- No and Yes. I frequently do, simply because a streamed version will never play smoothly (especially HD)

...and sorry for the massive post!

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Reply # 1069540 19-Jun-2014 20:08

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I'll give my opinion on the first part of your question...
1 - Yes
2 - Yes
3 - No
4 - Yes
5 - Yes
6 - Yes
7 - Yes
8 - No
9 - No
10 - Yes

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Reply # 1069541 19-Jun-2014 20:09

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Can I please have your phone number..? I would like to report you for a reward.

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Reply # 1069542 19-Jun-2014 20:10

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Gozer

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Reply # 1069545 19-Jun-2014 20:18

just to nit pick...
BBC iPlayer is definitely not a free service, it is a service that is payed for by licence fees.

That is the important distinction here, all of these things are products that someone has to pay for, whether it be you directly or a TV channel that supplies it to you for free but has to get its money from advertising.

I think the distinction should be that if a member of the public buys something then they should be able to do anything they want with it as long as it is for personal use.
Which means you could rip it but not rebroadcast it etc

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Reply # 1069576 19-Jun-2014 21:29

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".... so what do you call a pirate?"
Sir.

Sideface

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Reply # 1069593 19-Jun-2014 22:18

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1- Ripping a CD borrowed from a friend? Yes and Yes
2- Ripping a hired DVD/Blu-ray? Yes and Yes
3- Ripping a DVD/Blu-ray you have purchased? (ie for playback on a tablet/mobile phone/media server) Yes and Yes
4- Downloading/torrenting the latest movie blockbuster? Yes and Yes
5- Downlaoding/torrenting the latest episode of your favourite TV show THAT PLAYS HERE ON FREEVIEW, but hasn't aired here yet? Yes and Yes
6- Downlaoding/torrenting an episode of a show THAT PLAYS HERE ON FREEVIEW that has already aired here? Yes and Yes
7- Downloading/torrenting any episode of your fovourite TV show THAT PLAYS HERE ON SKY? Yes and Yes
8- Using PAID FOR overseas TV/Movie streaming services? (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon etc.) No and Yes
9- Using FREE overseas TV streaming services? (BBC iPlayer, ITV Player etc.) No and Yes
10- Downloading music videos (or any videos) from YouTube? Yes (unless the copyright owner has said it is ok) and Yes

so basically I have done all the above, and I consider almost all of it piracy. (or rather 'copyright infringment')

As for morally whether it is right.... you didn't ask :P

freitasm

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Reply # 1069601 19-Jun-2014 22:23

tangerz: Answer the questions two-fold: First, do you consider it piracy? Second, do you do it/have you done it? (Give reasons/qualifications/justifications if you like!)

1- Ripping a CD borrowed from a friend?
2- Ripping a hired DVD/Blu-ray?
3- Ripping a DVD/Blu-ray you have purchased? (ie for playback on a tablet/mobile phone/media server)
4- Downloading/torrenting the latest movie blockbuster?
5- Downlaoding/torrenting the latest episode of your favourite TV show THAT PLAYS HERE ON FREEVIEW, but hasn't aired here yet?
6- Downlaoding/torrenting an episode of a show THAT PLAYS HERE ON FREEVIEW that has already aired here?
7- Downloading/torrenting any episode of your fovourite TV show THAT PLAYS HERE ON SKY?
8- Using PAID FOR overseas TV/Movie streaming services? (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon etc.)
9- Using FREE overseas TV streaming services? (BBC iPlayer, ITV Player etc.)
10- Downloading music videos (or any videos) from YouTube?

OIf your list, #8, #9 and #10 aren't illegal. The other ones are.

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tangerz

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Reply # 1069622 19-Jun-2014 23:25

freitasm: OIf your list, #8, #9 and #10 aren't illegal. The other ones are.

Yeah it's easy to just define legal/illegal... I was more looking for different views on the whole thing... what people deem to be piracy, (regardless of it's legality).

Like for instance the video format shifting thing. Is it illegal? Yes. Does that mean everyone views it as piracy? If I want to view my legally purchased Blu-ray on my tablet by format shifting it, does that lump me in with everyone who just download a torrent of the same movie? If you stick with the letter of the law then yes, both are copyright infringement. But I am of the opinion they are vastly different things... and I see nothing at all wrong with video format shifting, 'illegal' though it may be.

And you say #9 isn't illegal? Doesn't watching content intended to only be freely available in other countries 'impact revenue streams of content providers' in this country? Wouldn't that make it illegal? (the FUG about post removal wouuld seem to indicate as much)

And isn't #10 also illegal unless you have the consent of the rights holder?

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Reply # 1069663 20-Jun-2014 00:28

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Too confusing to match your questions and my answers on my phone browser, but I've done most of the ripping and downloading options, but don't anymore due to personal integrity concerns.

I don't think format shifting or geo-unlocking are wrong, and happily que jump what is either unavailable here, or soon-to-be-free to see... Why we have to wait for local dated equipment to be able to compete is beyond me!

However, I do feel that if the movie is available in the UK/USA for a reasonable price that the producer feels is fair (Netflix Amazon iTunes etc.) then I feel it's fair for me to see it for that fee too (not a locally inflated price!)

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Reply # 1069685 20-Jun-2014 06:40

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Someone who forcedly boards a ship that is in international waters. i.e. Sea Shepherd, Somalian speedboat enthusiasts, Greenpeace anti-oil protesters, Israeli special forces etc.

Sorry couldn't resist. :-)

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Reply # 1069709 20-Jun-2014 08:09

from 1~9 I have at some point in time done all of them and really I don't feel any shame having done it

gzt

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Reply # 1069716 20-Jun-2014 08:32

Answer the questions two-fold: First, do you consider it piracy? Second, do you do it/have you done it? (Give reasons/qualifications/justifications if you like!)

I rarely do any of the items on this list. Nevertheless I consider it a civil liberty to do so if I should choose. Frankly I think the opposite point of view is dystopian.

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Reply # 1069732 20-Jun-2014 09:10

freitasm:
tangerz: Answer the questions two-fold: First, do you consider it piracy? Second, do you do it/have you done it? (Give reasons/qualifications/justifications if you like!)

1- Ripping a CD borrowed from a friend?
2- Ripping a hired DVD/Blu-ray?
3- Ripping a DVD/Blu-ray you have purchased? (ie for playback on a tablet/mobile phone/media server)
4- Downloading/torrenting the latest movie blockbuster?
5- Downlaoding/torrenting the latest episode of your favourite TV show THAT PLAYS HERE ON FREEVIEW, but hasn't aired here yet?
6- Downlaoding/torrenting an episode of a show THAT PLAYS HERE ON FREEVIEW that has already aired here?
7- Downloading/torrenting any episode of your fovourite TV show THAT PLAYS HERE ON SKY?
8- Using PAID FOR overseas TV/Movie streaming services? (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon etc.)
9- Using FREE overseas TV streaming services? (BBC iPlayer, ITV Player etc.)
10- Downloading music videos (or any videos) from YouTube?

OIf your list, #8, #9 and #10 aren't illegal. The other ones are.

And #3 is, but shouldn't be.

freitasm

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Reply # 1069741 20-Jun-2014 09:20

tangerz:
freitasm: OIf your list, #8, #9 and #10 aren't illegal. The other ones are.

Yeah it's easy to just define legal/illegal... I was more looking for different views on the whole thing... what people deem to be piracy, (regardless of it's legality).

Like for instance the video format shifting thing. Is it illegal? Yes. Does that mean everyone views it as piracy? If I want to view my legally purchased Blu-ray on my tablet by format shifting it, does that lump me in with everyone who just download a torrent of the same movie? If you stick with the letter of the law then yes, both are copyright infringement. But I am of the opinion they are vastly different things... and I see nothing at all wrong with video format shifting, 'illegal' though it may be.

And you say #9 isn't illegal? Doesn't watching content intended to only be freely available in other countries 'impact revenue streams of content providers' in this country? Wouldn't that make it illegal? (the FUG about post removal wouuld seem to indicate as much)

You are getting confused here. Think of using Netflix as Parallel Importing goods, but bits instead of atoms. There's nothing against you buying a book in the USA and bringing it back. Or buying a book on Amazon and have it shipped here. Does it hurt Whitcoulls? Sure, but you have the right to decide where to spend your money.

Our FUG is there to prevent people discussing things that HURT. For example the guy who buys a cheap sat receiver from China and want to know how to clone hi neighbour's SKY card to get free SKY service, or clone his own card to get a second SKY receiver in the house.

tangerz: And isn't #10 also illegal unless you have the consent of the rights holder?

Yes, sorry, #10 is illegal as well.

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Reply # 1069748 20-Jun-2014 09:30

tangerz:
freitasm: OIf your list, #8, #9 and #10 aren't illegal. The other ones are.

Yeah it's easy to just define legal/illegal... I was more looking for different views on the whole thing... what people deem to be piracy, (regardless of it's legality).

Like for instance the video format shifting thing. Is it illegal? Yes. Does that mean everyone views it as piracy? If I want to view my legally purchased Blu-ray on my tablet by format shifting it, does that lump me in with everyone who just download a torrent of the same movie? If you stick with the letter of the law then yes, both are copyright infringement. But I am of the opinion they are vastly different things... and I see nothing at all wrong with video format shifting, 'illegal' though it may be.

And you say #9 isn't illegal? Doesn't watching content intended to only be freely available in other countries 'impact revenue streams of content providers' in this country? Wouldn't that make it illegal? (the FUG about post removal wouuld seem to indicate as much)

And isn't #10 also illegal unless you have the consent of the rights holder?

#9 is not illegal, because New Zealand law specifically does not recognise or protect technological prevention measures designed solely to enforce geographical separation. Our laws are quite forward thinking in the sense that they recognise that we are in a global economy and there is no legitimate reason to enforce price disparity disconnected from actual costs to deliver a product, or contractual provisions designed solely to ensure there's a local middleman clipping the ticket (i.e. Sky, who frankly can get bent)

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