FTTH/Quad-play in New Zealand

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#466792 8-May-2011 16:12

An udpate on this folks...

I was contacted by anuragbhatia about this discussion, and his blog post. Seeing we give both sides of a debate their voice, I unlocked the discussion and gave him Trusted status.

This was done because as I said before we currently block some countries from posting in our forums.

That's why mgcarley couldn't post a reply immediately after the discussion was unlocked, and I promoted him to Trusted so he could post replies from anywhere he could be in the world.

We do not implicitly agree or disagree with whatever was published on another blog. But because the business goes over multiple countries I thought it would be fair to allow them a voice.

Now back to the normal programme.

mgcarley

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#466796 8-May-2011 16:22

muppet: Still can't find you (either your name, or your companies) in APNIC, mgcarley.

Any real ISP about to launch would have applied for space a long time ago. Why don't you have any? People are getting space all the time, look at how quickly the last big blocks of remaining space were used up.
You mention APNIC won't give you space because you can't show you require it. That's not how they work. If you can show them incorporation papers, purchase orders for hardware etc they would have happily allocated space, assuming you're a paid up member. It'll be a bit harder now they're out of space, however.

We have both of those things (incorporation certificate, invoices for some equipment and contracts pending for bandwidth) but 1. We're not looking for v4 address space and never have been and 2. Applying for resources is really quite low on the to-do list, considering what we need to get it running we already have thanks to HNS.

As for NZ, then there are existing providers from whom we're buying resources who can provide us with the small amounts of v4 space we will need.

muppet: I know of no other ISP CEO that has the time to reply on forums about detailed aspects of their operations. I haven't seen Allan Freeth on here recently discussing people they're partnering with.

Allan Freeth is already running a large company. My company is not yet anywhere near that size yet. Once I get to be that size, only then you may comment on how much time I have to be on forums talking about my service.

muppet: You mention in another post your trial couldn't continue legally. Why not? What sort of legal things is extending a trial going to breach?

In India? We were allowed to prove that the concept worked, and that was it. We weren't running the service properly, as in, only those who were actually building the thing could get a taste. There was no public testing done, even though I did call for some testers.

muppet: I'd love to meet you to discuss this. When are you in Auckland next?

I don't know. I might be back on the 21st of May, I might not be - there are some events in the last week of May in Delhi that I am considering attending, so I may delay my return to NZ until after those are completed.

Now, frankly, I don't really care whether you all think I'm going to launch this thing or whether I'm a fake, delusional or just plain full of it, you can think what you like - but it's very likely that anything I'm doing affects you, and until it does, I'm going to do what is necessary in order to get something running.

And yes, I think that it SHOULD be possible to have 2 separate FTTH networks - it's the fact that there has been a monopoly which has screwed NZ up in the first place, and while I would have been a supporter of the government's network before, I think now that by the time it gets completed it's going to be desperately obsolete. In fact, it's already obsolete - I've had the pleasure of having 100mbit/s services 5 years ago. But that's my opinion. Yours may differ.

So when you start seeing advertisements or the company actually beginning to ask for money in exchange for services THEN you can be skeptical about the credentials of the company or whether we have anything in place or not and/or whether we can deliver what we want to deliver.

blakamin

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#466797 8-May-2011 16:25

mgcarley:

I think you'll find plenty of companies that use a home address as their registered office.

Quite true, but that wasn't my question.
You just don't see many major (or soon to be major) ISP CEOs with utes.

Not that it matters. I'm just here with my popcorn for the lolz!

I wonder if Dr Freeth has a ute killing HIS lawn?
Might have to google that out of curiosity.

mgcarley

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#466798 8-May-2011 16:30

blakamin:
mgcarley:

I think you'll find plenty of companies that use a home address as their registered office.

Quite true, but that wasn't my question.
You just don't see many major (or soon to be major) ISP CEOs with utes.

Not that it matters. I'm just here with my popcorn for the lolz!

I wonder if Dr Freeth has a ute killing HIS lawn?
Might have to google that out of curiosity.

You're suggesting that it's mine to begin with. I would never drive such an atrocity, let alone a Ford.

As I haven't lived for any great length of time in NZ over the better part of the last 7 years, I no longer maintain my own properties or vehicles in that country. When I left, I had no intention of ever really returning.

richms

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#466800 8-May-2011 16:45

Lolz at the ute.

Anyway, how do you propose on offering a working internet service to people without a bucketload of IPv4 addresses?

Mind you, being natted behind a shared one, while making torrents somewhat slow and broken would be handy for those pesky letters that will start coming out in september ;)

Richard rich.ms

mgcarley

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#466808 8-May-2011 17:09

richms: Lolz at the ute.

Anyway, how do you propose on offering a working internet service to people without a bucketload of IPv4 addresses?

Mind you, being natted behind a shared one, while making torrents somewhat slow and broken would be handy for those pesky letters that will start coming out in september ;)

The plan has always been to be exclusively IPv6. If I'm going to build a new network from the ground up, why should I bother with IPv4?

Yes there are some compatibility issues but these are mostly solved with something like 6to4, but even this isn't as necessary as it would have been earlier, as most of the web space that matters is running on both IPv4 and IPv6; allowing access from either version of the IP space.

Yes, we will need *a few* v4 addresses, but not many, and so we can simply purchase a small block from a provider that already has them.

blakamin

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#466811 8-May-2011 17:16

mgcarley:
I think you'll find plenty of companies that use a home address as their registered office.

mgcarley:
As I haven't lived for any great length of time in NZ over the better part of the last 7 years, I no longer maintain my own properties or vehicles in that country. When I left, I had no intention of ever really returning.

Jeez, now you've just confused me, as most company directors that use a home address as a company registered office tend live there!
Where do you keep your company records? Does your lawyer live there? Accountant?

According to the companies register, it's the directors (you in case you forgot) residential address!!! And the reidential address of another company that are shareholders!

Lucky it's a 3 bedroom house with all these lawyers and directors and accountants and shareholders living there! Must be hell in the mornings trying to get to the toilet!
Constant hot water?

Do any of your lawyers, accountants, directors or shareholders have pets?
Imagine if everyone had a dog or a cat! You'd need to hire someone just to pickup the "landmines"! I hope they've got a ride-on lawnmower or the person who did the lawns would have a case of "poo-ankles" from running over all the turds.
Maybe the accountants just have fish... easy to maintain while they pace the room, wringing their hands, counting the cash with their little green see-thru cap on.

The ute was a bit of an atrocity wasn't it? I wonder if it had mushrooms growing under it? I'd get onto that if I was the landlord!

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Beccara

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#466814 8-May-2011 17:19

Wow, A v6 pure network, I support v6 as much as I can and infact have been the driving force for it where I work but you can't run a pure v6 network today, Too much breaks

Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated

richms

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#466815 8-May-2011 17:21

mgcarley:

The plan has always been to be exclusively IPv6. If I'm going to build a new network from the ground up, why should I bother with IPv4?

Yes there are some compatibility issues but these are mostly solved with something like 6to4, but even this isn't as necessary as it would have been earlier, as most of the web space that matters is running on both IPv4 and IPv6; allowing access from either version of the IP space.

Yes, we will need *a few* v4 addresses, but not many, and so we can simply purchase a small block from a provider that already has them.

I can tell you right now that if you offered me something that had no full ipv4 capability without complete disclosure up front I would be canceling the minute I found that I was unable to get incoming connections from the internet, which I should point out is almost exclusively ipV4 and will most likely stay that way for the foreseeable future.

That is not internet service.

Richard rich.ms

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#466818 8-May-2011 17:29

richms:
mgcarley:

The plan has always been to be exclusively IPv6. If I'm going to build a new network from the ground up, why should I bother with IPv4?

Yes there are some compatibility issues but these are mostly solved with something like 6to4, but even this isn't as necessary as it would have been earlier, as most of the web space that matters is running on both IPv4 and IPv6; allowing access from either version of the IP space.

Yes, we will need *a few* v4 addresses, but not many, and so we can simply purchase a small block from a provider that already has them.

I can tell you right now that if you offered me something that had no full ipv4 capability without complete disclosure up front I would be canceling the minute I found that I was unable to get incoming connections from the internet, which I should point out is almost exclusively ipV4 and will most likely stay that way for the foreseeable future.

That is not internet service.

Slightly offtopic but I hope you are prepared to pay for that public IPv4 address then, Before the end of the year I expect to see ISP's going the CGN and v6 route, Public v4 is going to cost you

mgcarley

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#466834 8-May-2011 18:02

blakamin:
mgcarley:
I think you'll find plenty of companies that use a home address as their registered office.

mgcarley:
As I haven't lived for any great length of time in NZ over the better part of the last 7 years, I no longer maintain my own properties or vehicles in that country. When I left, I had no intention of ever really returning.

Jeez, now you've just confused me, as most company directors that use a home address as a company registered office tend live there!
Where do you keep your company records? Does your lawyer live there? Accountant?

According to the companies register, it's the directors (you in case you forgot) residential address!!! And the reidential address of another company that are shareholders!

Lucky it's a 3 bedroom house with all these lawyers and directors and accountants and shareholders living there! Must be hell in the mornings trying to get to the toilet!
Constant hot water?

Do any of your lawyers, accountants, directors or shareholders have pets?
Imagine if everyone had a dog or a cat! You'd need to hire someone just to pickup the "landmines"! I hope they've got a ride-on lawnmower or the person who did the lawns would have a case of "poo-ankles" from running over all the turds.
Maybe the accountants just have fish... easy to maintain while they pace the room, wringing their hands, counting the cash with their little green see-thru cap on.

The ute was a bit of an atrocity wasn't it? I wonder if it had mushrooms growing under it? I'd get onto that if I was the landlord!

Now you're just being ridiculous.

mgcarley

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#466837 8-May-2011 18:05

Beccara: Wow, A v6 pure network, I support v6 as much as I can and infact have been the driving force for it where I work but you can't run a pure v6 network today, Too much breaks

Within the network it's fine. As mentioned, most of the Internet (the parts that matter) are at least reachable on v6, and for those that are not, there are tunnels and other solutions available. How much of the Internet is *actually* reachable natively by IPv6 depends on who you talk to.

But now that the v4 address space is basically gone, the incentive is there for v6 to gain a little bit more popularity.

mgcarley

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#466840 8-May-2011 18:09

richms:
mgcarley:

The plan has always been to be exclusively IPv6. If I'm going to build a new network from the ground up, why should I bother with IPv4?

Yes there are some compatibility issues but these are mostly solved with something like 6to4, but even this isn't as necessary as it would have been earlier, as most of the web space that matters is running on both IPv4 and IPv6; allowing access from either version of the IP space.

Yes, we will need *a few* v4 addresses, but not many, and so we can simply purchase a small block from a provider that already has them.

I can tell you right now that if you offered me something that had no full ipv4 capability without complete disclosure up front I would be canceling the minute I found that I was unable to get incoming connections from the internet, which I should point out is almost exclusively ipV4 and will most likely stay that way for the foreseeable future.

That is not internet service.

Torrents work fine over IPv6 (that *is* why you want incoming connections, right?)

If you're wanting to host a web/mail/ssh/etc server then you shouldn't be doing that on a residential connection anyway. For businesses there are other ways of getting that done.

Again, depending on who you believe depends on how much of the Internet is reachable with IPv6 only. There are ISPs already beginning to do away with IPv4 - if you're not ready to do that, then this is your issue, not mine.

mgcarley

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#466841 8-May-2011 18:11

Beccara:

Slightly offtopic but I hope you are prepared to pay for that public IPv4 address then, Before the end of the year I expect to see ISP's going the CGN and v6 route, Public v4 is going to cost you

I'm aware of what it may potentially cost, but even that is negligible in the grand scheme of things.

Beccara

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#466843 8-May-2011 18:13

I'm sorry but that claim is laughable, Even with DNS whitelisting you get google services, facebook isn't v6 yet unless you change the url you are going to (users wont) 6to4 and Nat64 break FTP/SIP/Any protocol with connection info in the packet contents. There isn't a SIP ATA that any SIP providers support that do v6 yet, The list goes on. Sure with NAT64 you users will be able to browse the net but apart from that little else will work. There's also the small issue that alot of v6 devices have immature software stacks right now.

If you wanted to launch in say 3-4 years a pure v6 network then it would be possible at that point as the transition and translation tech matures and the end user equipment matures but any sooner is crazy, Atleast go the CGN/v6 route if you're going to attempt this

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