Another thread about the parts of the country that still can't get broadband

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Another thread about the parts of the country that still can't get broadband

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13963 posts

Uber Geek

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#2155616 7-Jan-2019 10:16

Lastman:

Clearly, noone is expecting much until the smoke has cleared from the existing UFB rollouts as that is going to be stretching the resources of time and money for a while.

Then discussions can be done on likely costs of any extensions and depends, no doubt, on knowlege of how the current system is structured for expansion.

The more I think about this debate the more I believe that fibre should, can and probably will be extended to the whole country, in the long term. The whole lot barring the most extremes of habitation.

Nope, won't happen. There may be a few small extensions but 100% of the country on fibre? Impossible given the cost.

Lastman

306 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2155619 7-Jan-2019 10:23

I should log it on that “make a prediction” website for 25 years time!

atomeara

324 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2155627 7-Jan-2019 10:33

Lastman:

Clearly, noone is expecting much until the smoke has cleared from the existing UFB rollouts as that is going to be stretching the resources of time and money for a while.

Then discussions can be done on likely costs of any extensions and depends, no doubt, on knowlege of how the current system is structured for expansion.

The more I think about this debate the more I believe that fibre should, can and probably will be extended to the whole country, in the long term. The whole lot barring the most extremes of habitation.

I do a number of rural fibre installs. The biggest so far was for a house in rural Waimauku, North West Auckland. It was $85k for approx 2.5km down existing roadside ducting and then 1.5km up the driveway. I have also done much cheaper ones for around 5k when we place a wireless link almost next to the Chorus cabinet. Most exchanges now have the OLT already installed.

However lack of spare fibre pairs can drive up the cost as well. I was quoted 20k to rearrange the network near Nelson for a site that has Chorus fibre but wanted to move to UFB/NGA as it was cheaper than HSNS (this is outside existing UFB coverage).

There is also a some RBI Fibre / Rural Fibre with a fixed install of about $800 or $1900 if you meet the density criteria. I am seeing how a couple of these goes on Waitakere Road in West Auckland currently.

I don't see the Chorus costs coming down unless there is some other kind of funding or program.

As for rolling out over the whole country.

Only if the government comes up with all the money and I doubt that, they are pretty happy with pushing wireless or remaining on copper for last 13% or so.

UFB coverage will get to 87%, every percentage you increase it the price increases as the density drops.

Many more rural areas are only fed via radio today.

Maybe some will get done with life cycle replacement or repair work from Chorus.

Lastman

306 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2155637 7-Jan-2019 10:45

It was $85k for approx 2.5km down existing roadside ducting and then 1.5km up the driveway.

So what was the cost of the 4km of cable for that? Was most of the cost at the transmitting and receiving end?

quickymart

13963 posts

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#2155739 7-Jan-2019 12:36

Looking at that cost ($85k) just on its own is a good indicator as to why 100% fibre would never happen - imagine putting it up a 7km long rural road for one person. How much do you think that would cost? It's never going to be feasible.

cyril7

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#2155742 7-Jan-2019 12:42

quickymart:

Looking at that cost ($85k) just on its own is a good indicator as to why 100% fibre would never happen - imagine putting it up a 7km long rural road for one person. How much do you think that would cost? It's never going to be feasible.

But as mentioned earlier in this thread, building a lot of rural on existing Lines Co's infrastructure (ie power poles) would be significantly cheaper, it would be interesting to get an understanding of those costs.

Cyril

atomeara

324 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2155750 7-Jan-2019 12:59

Lastman:
It was $85k for approx 2.5km down existing roadside ducting and then 1.5km up the driveway.

So what was the cost of the 4km of cable for that? Was most of the cost at the transmitting and receiving end?

Chorus do not give a break down of costs.

The industry standard price I have seen for quoting is $100 per M

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wratterus

1687 posts

Uber Geek

#2155765 7-Jan-2019 13:30

Slight hijack sorry, but seemed an appropriate place to ask - a friend of mine is inside one of Chorus's 'Rural Fibre' areas, according to the map at least, and is pretty confident there is actually Chorus Fibre that runs basically right on the edge of his property - I suspect it may be to feed the UMO/A cabinet actually as that is slightly further up the road.

He's tried to get a quote for this, but has basically been told 'you can't get Fibre', here is a ridiculous quote for copper' (even though he already has an ADSL connection), but I don't really think that it's been looked into properly.

Could someone help me understand better what exactly the requirements and limitations are around 'rural fibre', and what exactly the coverage map means - eg is that an area where Chorus have "dug trenches and installed new ducts"?

Thanks!

atomeara

324 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2155768 7-Jan-2019 13:39

Below is the Chorus fibre feeding UMO/A and THP/A

The darker blue is Chorus normal fibre and the light blue/green is Chorus RBI fibre. The light blue is generally easier / cheaper to tape into than the dark blue.

Chorus RBI fibre if it mets the required density has a fixed price install of around $800 or $1900, excluding any in boundary trenching from the road to your house.

Feel free to DM me and I can send it to Chorus.

Most places can get Rural Fibre it is just the install costs, I have had an estimate of about 300k for 5km of new fibre for one customer.

wratterus

1687 posts

Uber Geek

#2155778 7-Jan-2019 13:45

Thanks atomeara - UMO/A should be Upper Moutere? I just double checked the cabinet on the GIS Geek map, and it definitely says UMO/A there. Would be interested to know where the Chorus Fibre does actually go around that area.

I'll PM you details, really appreciate you being willing to have a look into it. Thanks.

atomeara

324 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2155781 7-Jan-2019 13:48

Sorry loaded wrong image up before, have corrected it

Lastman

306 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2155907 7-Jan-2019 16:31

cyril7:
quickymart:

Looking at that cost ($85k) just on its own is a good indicator as to why 100% fibre would never happen - imagine putting it up a 7km long rural road for one person. How much do you think that would cost? It's never going to be feasible.

But as mentioned earlier in this thread, building a lot of rural on existing Lines Co's infrastructure (ie power poles) would be significantly cheaper, it would be interesting to get an understanding of those costs.

Cyril

I think one house 7km up a rural road I would put in the “extremes of habitation” category and probably means they own all the land up the road and could get a cable out themselves.

The only issue with power line distribution, I guess, is the line security issue. With a damaged phone line, at the moment, it can affect one or two houses, wider distribution could affect 10s or hundreds.

quickymart

13963 posts

Uber Geek

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#2155918 7-Jan-2019 17:05

Sure, they could get a cable out there themselves but the cost would be prohibitive for most people and they would probably make do with a (far cheaper) alternative - wireless or copper, for example.

Lastman

306 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2155923 7-Jan-2019 17:22

quickymart:
Sure, they could get a cable out there themselves but the cost would be prohibitive for most people and they would probably make do with a (far cheaper) alternative - wireless or copper, for example.

Exactly, and that raises another issue to deal with. I believe the main fibre roll-out was going to require users pay for their connections to the house? And then that changed to free because, well, basic economics will mean people will pay for the connection only when they actually want it or can afford it and very few would take up the offer quickly.

The same would apply for rural if you were to expect a contribution for connections.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#2155925 7-Jan-2019 17:26

I think that a lot of rural people don't realize how lucky they are. For electricity at least, if you had an active connection before 1993, your lines company can't disconnect you if you keep paying the bills. Even though they will only be getting approx $10 per month from you in fixed fees if you are on a low user plan. Even Chorus have a way better ARPU.

There would be lots of rural electricity connections that the lines companies would love to disconnect, but they are not allowed to.

As for connection speeds, I remember the fuss about poor rural dialup speeds. And the Kiwishare agreement being amended to force Telecom to provide min 14.4K dialup speeds to rural customers.

Also the power and copper phone networks both took ages to initially roll out. Eventually the fibre network probably will reach close to 100% coverage. But the last 10% will take a very long time to complete. And those end customers will have to stump up. Try asking for a new rural electricity connection. Plenty of cases of people being asked to contribute $50K plus to network build costs. But that is all part of living very rural. Very rural land is often far cheaper just because of lack of services. If those services were available for low cost, the land would cost more to buy.

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