2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2822351 1-Dec-2021 10:42

ezbee:

It makes you wonder what kind of boss they would be to work for.
What other regulations might go by the wayside because they don't like them.

Lone Star New Lynn ignores vaccine mandate, invites unvaccinated to apply for work
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-delta-outbreak-lone-star-new-lynn-ignores-vaccine-mandate-invites-unvaccinated-to-apply-for-work/HWVXEZGEAJGEV6HGH3QAZG3T6M/

Partner and I have already decided we aren't risking our baby's health anywhere that wants to make a point about welcoming unvaxxed.

I'd rather support businesses who have put the effort into the administrative burden required to trade safely.

quickymart

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#2822363 1-Dec-2021 11:03

I see that the ad eventually got removed, but man that guy from the New Lynn Lone Star was a complete dick about it.

ezbee

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#2822366 1-Dec-2021 11:21

From the glass half full file...

Ohmicron is coming ? why get vaccinated ?
Delta is is what you will encounter most for some time.
First you have to survive that in good order.
Aside from antibodies, we do have T-Cells etc.
T-Cells work differently from antibodies and less easily evaded by variants, though slower next line of defense.

It will take weeks to know and to what extent, and we have been a bit focused on antibodies and infection.
Preventing serious disease however is good enough result if we can maintain this.

BioNTech co-founder: Vaccinated unlikely to become seriously ill from omicron
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/583640-biontech-co-founder-vaccinated-unlikely-to-become-seriously-ill-from

""
“Our belief [that the vaccines work against omicron] is rooted in science: If a virus achieves immune escape, it achieves it against antibodies, but there is the second level of immune response that protects from severe disease — the T-cells,” said the immunologist. “Even as an escape variant, the virus will hardly be able to completely evade the T-cells.”
""

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#2822531 1-Dec-2021 13:00

ezbee:

From the glass half full file...

Ohmicron is coming ? why get vaccinated ?
Delta is is what you will encounter most for some time.
First you have to survive that in good order.
Aside from antibodies, we do have T-Cells etc.
T-Cells work differently from antibodies and less easily evaded by variants, though slower next line of defense.

It will take weeks to know and to what extent, and we have been a bit focused on antibodies and infection.
Preventing serious disease however is good enough result if we can maintain this.

BioNTech co-founder: Vaccinated unlikely to become seriously ill from omicron
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/583640-biontech-co-founder-vaccinated-unlikely-to-become-seriously-ill-from

""
“Our belief [that the vaccines work against omicron] is rooted in science: If a virus achieves immune escape, it achieves it against antibodies, but there is the second level of immune response that protects from severe disease — the T-cells,” said the immunologist. “Even as an escape variant, the virus will hardly be able to completely evade the T-cells.”
""

I enjoy the science of pandemics so It is a bit like waiting for Christmas in terms of seeing the break down, and the big picture stuff is set to land around about Christmas time in a weird irony.

Three weeks we will get feedback about hospitalizations, four weeks Deaths.

But before all of that, we will know about vaccine resistance to the current Pfizer product.

The adaptive immune system is why we have not seen a Delta specific vaccine. Delta is also less vaccine resistant than beta was.

The trap around changing shots unnecessarily with bespoke versions, is getting ourselves locked into this constant chasing of the changing virus...when this may be entirely unnecessary based of hospitalizations and deaths in vaccinated populations with the first generation vaccine.

This is why the FDA and other world approving agencies shied away from approving the concept of making newer versions of the current vaccines.

However, one does wonder whether say an omicron mRNA vaccine would confer more sterilizing immunity against this one Covid evolution.

Anecdotally you would assume yes, since these vaccines, offered higher sterilizing immunity against the Wuhan strain.

Interesting times.

Just keep swimming...

DS248

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#2822566 1-Dec-2021 14:12

Further Israeli data on the effectiveness of booster doses. Not that more are needed. The effectiveness is already clear for earlier data and investigations.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2786890

"Comparing those who received a booster and those who received 2 doses, there was an estimated odds ratio of 0.14 (95% CI, 0.13-0.15) 28 to 65 days following receipt of the booster (86% reduction in the odds of testing positive for SARS-CoV-2)."

"After 14 days, the odds of hospitalization among those who received a booster dose were 92% to 97% lower than those who had received just 2 doses. The interpretation of these estimates for hospitalization is challenging; however, the apparent immune response of the booster was evident as soon as a few days after its receipt (87% measure of effectiveness at 0-6 days)."

Effectiveness against infection was limited during the first 7 days after the booster, and 'full' effectiveness not until 14 days after the booster dose.

Also note that the odds ratio figures above are relative to double dosed individuals, not unvaccinated people.

Clearly the booster doses will be important to minimising serious illness and impact on the health system.

shk292

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#2822572 1-Dec-2021 14:24

DS248:

Clearly the booster doses will be important to minimising serious illness and impact on the health system.

Nice to know - had my booster yesterday and have the hangover to prove it

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cshwone

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#2822628 1-Dec-2021 14:48

shk292:

DS248:

Clearly the booster doses will be important to minimising serious illness and impact on the health system.

Nice to know - had my booster yesterday and have the hangover to prove it

Likewise, floored me too. Had to take the day at home.

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#2822629 1-Dec-2021 14:50

DS248:

Further Israeli data on the effectiveness of booster doses. Not that more are needed. The effectiveness is already clear for earlier data and investigations.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2786890

"Comparing those who received a booster and those who received 2 doses, there was an estimated odds ratio of 0.14 (95% CI, 0.13-0.15) 28 to 65 days following receipt of the booster (86% reduction in the odds of testing positive for SARS-CoV-2)."

"After 14 days, the odds of hospitalization among those who received a booster dose were 92% to 97% lower than those who had received just 2 doses. The interpretation of these estimates for hospitalization is challenging; however, the apparent immune response of the booster was evident as soon as a few days after its receipt (87% measure of effectiveness at 0-6 days)."

Effectiveness against infection was limited during the first 7 days after the booster, and 'full' effectiveness not until 14 days after the booster dose.

Also note that the odds ratio figures above are relative to double dosed individuals, not unvaccinated people.

Clearly the booster doses will be important to minimising serious illness and impact on the health system.

Thanks for posting. We seem to be looking at an effect that is specific to the gap of six months, then re priming the immune system.

In other words these are not boosters.

These are a third routine shots in a three shot course with a time interval that allows the immune system to go into overdrive beyond the accumulative affects of a two shot shorter interval.

This is good news.

This opens a window is of possibilities....of a regime that has extended dose intervals because of an escalation in the intensity of the immune response over longer periods.

A booster normally restores previous therapeutic levels of antibodies. That is not what is happening here.

Just keep swimming...

DS248

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#2822633 1-Dec-2021 15:11

Sup:

DS248:

Further Israeli data on the effectiveness of booster doses. Not that more are needed. The effectiveness is already clear for earlier data and investigations.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2786890

"Comparing those who received a booster and those who received 2 doses, there was an estimated odds ratio of 0.14 (95% CI, 0.13-0.15) 28 to 65 days following receipt of the booster (86% reduction in the odds of testing positive for SARS-CoV-2)."

"After 14 days, the odds of hospitalization among those who received a booster dose were 92% to 97% lower than those who had received just 2 doses. The interpretation of these estimates for hospitalization is challenging; however, the apparent immune response of the booster was evident as soon as a few days after its receipt (87% measure of effectiveness at 0-6 days)."

Effectiveness against infection was limited during the first 7 days after the booster, and 'full' effectiveness not until 14 days after the booster dose.

Also note that the odds ratio figures above are relative to double dosed individuals, not unvaccinated people.

Clearly the booster doses will be important to minimising serious illness and impact on the health system.
Thanks for posting. We seem to be looking at an effect that is specific to the gap of six months, then re priming the immune system.

In other words these are not boosters.

These are a third routine shots in a three shot course with a time interval that allows the immune system to go into overdrive beyond the accumulative affects of a two shot shorter interval.

This is good news.

This opens a window is of possibilities....of a regime that has extended dose intervals because of an escalation in the intensity of the immune response over longer periods.

A booster normally restores previous therapeutic levels of antibodies. That is not what is happening here.

I understand what you are saying. A few points though:

If my recollection is correct, in NZ at least 'third dose' seems to refer to a situation where certain (immune compromised?) individuals receive three doses in relatively quick succession if two doses do not provide adequate immune response.
There is an element of restoration of immunity from the third/booster dose 5 - 6 months after the second. As other data from Israel and elsewhere have shown that immunity wanes over 4 - 6 months after the second dose (noting that of course, in Israel the standard gap between first and second doses was 3 weeks - as is the case for many in NZ)
A relatively minor point. As I understand it, the typical gap between the second and third/booster doses in Israel was ~5 months.

wellygary

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#2822673 1-Dec-2021 17:10

Nice little sting in the tail for unvaxxed travellers this summer...

"Some transport providers, such as Air New Zealand and Cook Strait ferry operators, may require you to show a vaccine pass or negative COVID-19 test result, taken within 72 hours before your journey, before boarding if you are aged 12 or above.

Testing for this purpose is not available at community testing centres. If you need a test to travel you must arrange and pay for it yourself."

Apparently tests to leave Auckland are still free but the cost is under review,,, and it looks like only certain places will do them for domestic travel

"Details on where this testing can be undertaken will be provided as soon as possible."

https://covid19.govt.nz/traffic-lights/life-at-red/travel-and-accommodation-at-red/travel-at-red/

Batman

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#2822676 1-Dec-2021 17:25

5-11 in jan

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127151455/covid19-vaccinations-for-children-aged-5-to-11-due-to-begin-from-january

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debo

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#2822682 1-Dec-2021 17:31

wellygary:
Nice little sting in the tail for unvaxxed travellers this summer...

"Some transport providers, such as Air New Zealand and Cook Strait ferry operators, may require you to show a vaccine pass or negative COVID-19 test result, taken within 72 hours before your journey, before boarding if you are aged 12 or above.

Testing for this purpose is not available at community testing centres. If you need a test to travel you must arrange and pay for it yourself."

Apparently tests to leave Auckland are still free but the cost is under review,,, and it looks like only certain places will do them for domestic travel

"Details on where this testing can be undertaken will be provided as soon as possible."

https://covid19.govt.nz/traffic-lights/life-at-red/travel-and-accommodation-at-red/travel-at-red/

How stupid do they think people are? Any one who wants a negative test will just say they have been in contact with a positive case. Are they going to start deny testing?

Batman

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#2822683 1-Dec-2021 17:33

if you are in contact you won't be travelling you'd be isolating i thought? or has traffic lights changed that?

i'd just say i sneezed

Sup

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Ultimate Geek
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#2822690 1-Dec-2021 17:53

I understand what you are saying. A few points though:

If my recollection is correct, in NZ at least 'third dose' seems to refer to a situation where certain (immune compromised?) individuals receive three doses in relatively quick succession if two doses do not provide adequate immune response.
There is an element of restoration of immunity from the third/booster dose 5 - 6 months after the second. As other data from Israel and elsewhere have shown that immunity wanes over 4 - 6 months after the second dose (noting that of course, in Israel the standard gap between first and second doses was 3 weeks - as is the case for many in NZ)
A relatively minor point. As I understand it, the typical gap between the second and third/booster doses in Israel was ~5 months.

Yes third dose in NZ means what you say it means. For now in any case. Although I have seen experts talk about their pet hate when the word booster is used where we may be talking about a three dose phenomena. That would especially be relevant if immunity is long lasting. Point taken on the waning of immunity, This goes further, but i understand you are not arguing that aspect.

The gap in Israel was fueled by a Delta wave of course, largely fueled by the unvaccinated, so severe that it overwhelmed depleted vaccine immunity to the point of rising hospitalizations.

We are fortunate that we will almost certainly avoid that. Thanks to the timing of the booster program in the context of a small wave, and the coming pediatric vaccine.

Timing in terms of fresh vaccine in the bulk of your population makes for a very different picture to Israel, Australia and everywhere else hey.

Just keep swimming...

rugrat

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#2822696 1-Dec-2021 18:27

debo:

How stupid do they think people are? Any one who wants a negative test will just say they have been in contact with a positive case. Are they going to start deny testing?

Depends on the evidence given for being tested general reason vs evidence given when being tested for travel.

If given the same evidence of negative no matter what reason for being tested then Yep you are right. I assume text message is the most common one.

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