2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2478820 7-May-2020 17:15

Thanks boss!

Even more concerned that there doesn't seem to be any acknowledgement in the rules that a person can be spreading the virus before they have a symptom.
And those who have a symptom deciding "nah, it's just a sniffle, I'll pop along for a few hours"

ezbee

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#2478821 7-May-2020 17:16

dgeek, re Matamata.

More on the likely infection trail for Matamata.
Human factors , likely person just returned from Irelan , not working , but was in contact.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12330251

Lack of detail in the released data is somewhat frustrating.
Does not support people coming forward , speeding work of contact tracing.
Supports thinking XXX community is safe because its listed as Hamilton DHB , only a TRON issue.
Each DHB cover large areas.

The lets open up the Malls fully , from my safe isolation crowd , should but don't consider.
How fast the ramp can be, and you wont see it till almost 2 weeks too late.
Plus human factors of those getting message its all over already, a-la takeways.
So measured steps, with chance to get feedback.

Who would want to be in a position where tourism bubble from Aussie is off due to a Wedding, Stag do, Mall big sale day, Crowded Bar etc.
Ok maybe Aussie are disqualifying themselves, but Taiwanese have a high standard of living and in good position for bubble.

There is a lot on the line. No bubble with anyone if we go back.

Be careful out there and we can be in a very enviable position where we are not fighting for dodgy PPE.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/all-400000-gowns-flown-from-turkey-for-nhs-fail-uk-standards

Looks like we can do a lot carefully under level 2, so no gulag.

Fred99

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#2478822 7-May-2020 17:18

frednz:

However, it would have been helpful if both the covid site and the Health Act Order had used the same terms. This map sets out the boundaries of the various NZ regions.

If you live in Glenavy, I doubt you'd be prosecuted for travelling to Oamaru to do your grocery shopping instead of to Timaru.

Maybe people are expecting miracles from lawmakers. I doubt the intention is that you live 15 minutes from the nearest supermarket then you starve or expect an exemption to drive at 150km/h so you can make it in 10 minutes instead of 15.

Maybe what's needed is an all-encompassing law allowing prosecution of people for being dickheads. (edit to say the kind of idiots who'll take the opportunity to do stupid things that will spread C-19)

tdgeek

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#2478823 7-May-2020 17:22

nzkiwiman:

Thanks boss!

Even more concerned that there doesn't seem to be any acknowledgement in the rules that a person can be spreading the virus before they have a symptom.
And those who have a symptom deciding "nah, it's just a sniffle, I'll pop along for a few hours"

There is that. But we do need to draw a line. We could eliminate it for sure by continual L4 but that's excessive to the economy. They have mentioned that there will be more cases, there can be an outbreak, its a long haul. The plan is to ring fence these if they happen. Get to L2 and each popup is manageable.

tdgeek

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#2478825 7-May-2020 17:28

ezbee:

dgeek, re Matamata.

More on the likely infection trail for Matamata.
Human factors , likely person just returned from Irelan , not working , but was in contact.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12330251

Lack of detail in the released data is somewhat frustrating.
Does not support people coming forward , speeding work of contact tracing.
Supports thinking XXX community is safe because its listed as Hamilton DHB , only a TRON issue.
Each DHB cover large areas.

The lets open up the Malls fully , from my safe isolation crowd , should but don't consider.
How fast the ramp can be, and you wont see it till almost 2 weeks too late.
Plus human factors of those getting message its all over already, a-la takeways.
So measured steps, with chance to get feedback.

Who would want to be in a position where tourism bubble from Aussie is off due to a Wedding, Stag do, Mall big sale day, Crowded Bar etc.
Ok maybe Aussie are disqualifying themselves, but Taiwanese have a high standard of living and in good position for bubble.

There is a lot on the line. No bubble with anyone if we go back.

Be careful out there and we can be in a very enviable position where we are not fighting for dodgy PPE.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/all-400000-gowns-flown-from-turkey-for-nhs-fail-uk-standards

Looks like we can do a lot carefully under level 2, so no gulag.

Yep. Is there any info on todays Matamata case? Haven't seen any. Id be a little bit concerned if I lived there. But like I said in a recent post, we have to go to L2 sometime. The benefit to health, given the LOW number of cases can't be used now to further harm businesses. Im just not sure how we ring fence in L2, as effectively there are no bubbles as I see it. No effective bubbles. For 99.x % of us, if we cough over someone there is nothing to spread, but if we get a CT, far too many to contact trace.

tdgeek

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#2478826 7-May-2020 17:32

Listening to the 1pm update, PM said a few things that seemed to indicate its L2 next week, before pausing, and restating that we haven't decided yet. Did that 3 or 4 times, subtle micro slipups. I have no doubt that its 99% decided.

ezbee

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#2478828 7-May-2020 17:39

tdgeek,

For more detail on today's case, have not seen anything more but this below from NZ Herald.
With current social media environment potentially opening up people to much unwanted direct attention, it must be hard for the few active reporters to chase down these things.

"
At Thursday's Covid-19 press conference Director General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield told media anyone associated with the Matamata cluster who felt they needed a test should seek advice.

There was one new case in the cluster overnight.

Waikato District Health Board Medical Officer of Health Dr Richard Hoskins told RNZ the DHB was considering testing asymptomatic contacts of recent cases linked to the Matamata cluster who have never been tested, but was not able to offer voluntary testing.

"We don't have a list of everybody who attended that event ... Marist College has a register of all of its students and their families and teachers."

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Fred99

13684 posts

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#2478830 7-May-2020 17:46

tdgeek:

Listening to the 1pm update, PM said a few things that seemed to indicate its L2 next week, before pausing, and restating that we haven't decided yet. Did that 3 or 4 times, subtle micro slipups. I have no doubt that its 99% decided.

I'd put it at 90% - not 99%.

I don't have a problem with it based on how we're going, but there needs to be an all-out simple to understand messaging about individual responsibility to get the message to everybody about what's expected.

Dickheads in my FILs street in the leafy suburb of Fendalton were having a backyard "street party" last weekend. My FIL was mortified when they asked him to join in - under normal circumstances he would have loved to have a few beersies, kids from several households were having a ball. He knew that within 50 metres was a nurse in isolation as she'd had contact with C-19 positive patients in one of the rest-home clusters. My FIL is 84 - I am fairly certain he'll die if he gets C-19, several co-morbidities. He doesn't want to die.

Ge0rge

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#2478834 7-May-2020 17:52

tdgeek:
Listening to the 1pm update, PM said a few things that seemed to indicate its L2 next week, before pausing, and restating that we haven't decided yet. Did that 3 or 4 times, subtle micro slipups. I have no doubt that its 99% decided.

Interesting that you saw it this way. Watched it at work today with a couple of others and the overall feel in the room was that we weren't going to get lvl2 country-wide next week. To sum up another gentlemen's quote, he felt we were getting "pre-lubed for something we're not going to like on Monday" today.

kingdragonfly

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#2478835 7-May-2020 17:52

Wisconsin Supreme Court Chief Justice Roggensack blasted as 'elitist,' 'out of touch' for meatpacking remark

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel by Daniel Bice

How do you take an already heated Supreme Court hearing on Governor Tony Evers' stay-at-home order and make it even more explosive?

First, you have one justice liken the order closing schools and businesses to "tyranny" while also bringing up the Japanese-American internment camps from World War II. Then you get Chief Justice Patience Roggensack to dial it up even more by appearing to downplay a flare-up of coronavirus cases at a major meatpacking facility in Brown County.

"(The surge) was due to the meatpacking — that's where Brown County got the flare," Roggensack said. "It wasn't just the regular folks in Brown County."

...Clearly, the oral arguments before the Supreme Court on Tuesday were anything but ordinary.

The lawsuit is the latest battle between the Democratic governor and the Republican-controlled Legislature over who gets to run state government in Wisconsin.

At issue is whether Evers and Department of Health Secretary Andrea Palm acted lawfully when Palm signed the order extending restrictions on business operations and schools until May 26.

Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald, who is running for Congress in the 5th District, and Speaker Robin Vos sued the governor, arguing the Evers administration cannot act on its own in perpetuity and must craft a long-term plan with lawmakers' approval.

...At Tuesday's hearing, Justice Rebecca Bradley had already raised the temperature by suggesting the state's stay-at-home order is "the very definition of tyranny." She also invoked the country's internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II.

...Darryl Morin, head of Forward Latino, pointed out that the justices are fortunate enough that they could conduct their hearing via teleconference, something that keeps them safe from contracting the coronavirus. Morin said those working at meatpacking plants don't have that luxury.

...Still, Morin suggested that these blue-collar employees could embrace Roggensack's remark.

"The justice may be correct," he said. "They may not be regular people as their efforts in this extremely dangerous environment should be considered nothing less than heroic."

Neumann-Ortiz said it is impossible to separate Roggensack's remarks from the issue of race, given the large number of Hispanics and immigrants who work at meatpacking facilities. Neumann-Ortiz said the justice "made explicit" what had been unspoken on this issue in the past.

Fendt, the labor leader, noted that JBS Packerland advertises for workers in Jalisco, Mexico.

"Over time, this has become an industry with many Latino workers, people who were attracted to an opportunity, who are working to achieve the American dream," Fendt said. "Just the same, I imagine, as when Justice Roggensack’s family immigrated from Europe."
...
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/investigations/daniel-bice/2020/05/06/wisconsin-supreme-court-justice-called-racist-meatpacking-remark/5175593002/

kobiak

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#2478836 7-May-2020 17:53

tdgeek:

Listening to the 1pm update, PM said a few things that seemed to indicate its L2 next week, before pausing, and restating that we haven't decided yet. Did that 3 or 4 times, subtle micro slipups. I have no doubt that its 99% decided.

She also repetitively indicated we might get into desired level 2 with phases (PM said that multiple times based on the advice she might get over the coming days).

TBH, I'm concerned about bars and sport/pools/training activities were people are very close to each other and might not have full control of their actions or just sweat like a big in the gym :D

helping others at evgenyk.nz

DS248

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#2478840 7-May-2020 17:57

tdgeek: ... Yep. Is there any info on todays Matamata case? Haven't seen any. Id be a little bit concerned if I lived there. ...

It is a young child (5 - 9 years old). Think he said infected in household.

Crazy that we have infectious people in home isolation where infection of other household members can occur, especially that we are now down to less than 160 active cases.

tdgeek

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#2478857 7-May-2020 18:30

Ge0rge:
tdgeek:

Listening to the 1pm update, PM said a few things that seemed to indicate its L2 next week, before pausing, and restating that we haven't decided yet. Did that 3 or 4 times, subtle micro slipups. I have no doubt that its 99% decided.

Interesting that you saw it this way. Watched it at work today with a couple of others and the overall feel in the room was that we weren't going to get lvl2 country-wide next week. To sum up another gentlemen's quote, he felt we were getting "pre-lubed for something we're not going to like on Monday" today.

Yeah, curiuoser and curiouser. The few times I felt that way she said words as if it was L2 already set in place, then a subtle change or words. Subtle, but we will see. If I'm right, it's understandable. She knows its practically decided, and has to talk as if it isn't, so the odd slip-up, albeit subtle would be hard to avoid.

If we get 0-3 cases the next few days, its L2. Business needs it. The health side is well on track, and no matter how iong we wait, the step to L2 is a big step. Its practically BAU, and given the mall and shopping spree and pubs it will be far busier than BAU for a short while.

tdgeek

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#2478860 7-May-2020 18:37

DS248:

tdgeek: ... Yep. Is there any info on todays Matamata case? Haven't seen any. Id be a little bit concerned if I lived there. ...

It is a young child (5 - 9 years old). Think he said infected in household.

Crazy that we have infectious people in home isolation where infection of other household members can occur, especially that we are now down to less than 160 active cases.

Yep. Maybe its unavoidable sometimes. Very early on they gave guidance on that. Sleep alone, eat alone, have own bathroom, hygiene.

You would almost want it to infect everyone at the same time in a household, then it's gone. Otherwise, if they took good care to avoid infection, everyone would still probably get infected, except over an extended period, due to them trying to avoid it. Then you start overlapping L3 which is a tad loose and L2 which is close to free reign.

mattwnz

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#2478861 7-May-2020 18:39

DS248:

tdgeek: ... Yep. Is there any info on todays Matamata case? Haven't seen any. Id be a little bit concerned if I lived there. ...

It is a young child (5 - 9 years old). Think he said infected in household.

Crazy that we have infectious people in home isolation where infection of other household members can occur, especially that we are now down to less than 160 active cases.

I think part of the problem is we don't know enough detail, because not enough detail has been provided. Reporters have to work hard to exact any details during the press conferences. It sounded like seagulls on a beach today in that media conference, with them all calling out questions at the same time, trying to be heard.

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