EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#2271525 7-Jul-2019 23:16

wellygary:

kingdragonfly: Honda e First Drive

When Robert Llewellyn was given an early test drive of a Honda e electric car in Frankfurt, Germany, he jumped at the chance.

It was all going great till he got to the "its going to be between 25-40,000 GBP, I think its going to be 28-30,000 GBP"....

Great ...another 60K NZD EV....

I'm interested to see what happens to Tesla prices after their 2nd Gigafactory opens in China at the end of the year. Being located in the US imposes a high price on anything they make.....which is why most US auto makers contrive to go broke and then "save" themselves by locating more and more production outside the US.

Tesla is a just doing it. No excuses. Plus they are the only foreign car maker in China to own 100% of the Chinese enterprise. That is almost unheard of. One thing is certain.....if batteries are to be cheaper it will be because companies built their own battery factories. That means Tesla. Plus.....Tesla now owns Maxwell Technologies and that points to more power density in future batteries....and cheaper batteries.

To put it another way......none of Tesla's competitors in the EV space have produced a care than can match the 2012 Tesla Model S. Tesla has an EV tech lead of almost a decade over everyone else.

That's why I'm ordering a Model 3 before the end of the year.

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tdgeek

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#2271573 8-Jul-2019 07:13

Linuxluver:

wellygary:

kingdragonfly: Honda e First Drive

When Robert Llewellyn was given an early test drive of a Honda e electric car in Frankfurt, Germany, he jumped at the chance.

It was all going great till he got to the "its going to be between 25-40,000 GBP, I think its going to be 28-30,000 GBP"....

Great ...another 60K NZD EV....

I'm interested to see what happens to Tesla prices after their 2nd Gigafactory opens in China at the end of the year. Being located in the US imposes a high price on anything they make.....which is why most US auto makers contrive to go broke and then "save" themselves by locating more and more production outside the US.

Tesla is a just doing it. No excuses. Plus they are the only foreign car maker in China to own 100% of the Chinese enterprise. That is almost unheard of. One thing is certain.....if batteries are to be cheaper it will be because companies built their own battery factories. That means Tesla. Plus.....Tesla now owns Maxwell Technologies and that points to more power density in future batteries....and cheaper batteries.

To put it another way......none of Tesla's competitors in the EV space have produced a care than can match the 2012 Tesla Model S. Tesla has an EV tech lead of almost a decade over everyone else.

That's why I'm ordering a Model 3 before the end of the year.

Aren't Tesla batteries made by Panasonic?

How are they 10 years ahead? Are they cheaper or kW, or they go faster per kW, or they handle more charges/decline slower?

GV27

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#2271576 8-Jul-2019 07:30

Linuxluver:

To put it another way......none of Tesla's competitors in the EV space have produced a care than can match the 2012 Tesla Model S. Tesla has an EV tech lead of almost a decade over everyone else.

Is the 0 - 60 time the only thing that matters? There's a lot to be saidabout the build quality for the price of a Tesla S, which is still astronomical.

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#2271577 8-Jul-2019 07:39

Thats my feel too. I'd wait. Or buy from a car manufacturer.

GV27

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#2271597 8-Jul-2019 09:21

I'd also argue there's far more engineering achievement in a Golf-sized hatch that can do 350km on a charge than a 4.5m long executive saloon whose claim to fame revolves around going very quickly in a straight line.

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#2271727 8-Jul-2019 10:50

GV27:
I'd also argue there's far more engineering achievement in a Golf-sized hatch that can do 350km on a charge than a 4.5m long executive saloon whose claim to fame revolves around going very quickly in a straight line.

But I would argue that the engineering achievement was designing an EV platform and then fitting a stylish car around it. Rather than taking a conventional vehicle and shoehorning some batteries and an electric motor into it.
And then adding next gen infotainment
And then adding Autopilot
And then producing an SUV
And then producing a midsize ‘affordable’ sedan.

Most ‘green’ vehicle manufacturers seem to be obsessed with making their vehicles look ‘different’, and as a consequence it is hard to approach them without their looks causing a small amount of bile to rise to your mouth.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

Linuxluver

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#2271754 8-Jul-2019 11:13

GV27:

Linuxluver:

To put it another way......none of Tesla's competitors in the EV space have produced a care than can match the 2012 Tesla Model S. Tesla has an EV tech lead of almost a decade over everyone else.

Is the 0 - 60 time the only thing that matters? There's a lot to be saidabout the build quality for the price of a Tesla S, which is still astronomical.

Not at all. I could care less about that aspect of a Tesla. My LEAF does 0-100kph in 11 seconds...and that's plenty fast enough for me. It's all the other stuff:

1. Autopilot.
2. OTA software updates that add functionality and correct any previous errors.
3. Being able to charge at up to 200kw.
4. Best crash rating of any car.
5. 400km+ range.
6. Batteries proven to be 90% of original capacity 500,000km and 5 years after manufacture.

......plus a swag of other features and improvements. Those are just the headlines.

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tdgeek

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#2271755 8-Jul-2019 11:14

Dingbatt:
GV27:

I'd also argue there's far more engineering achievement in a Golf-sized hatch that can do 350km on a charge than a 4.5m long executive saloon whose claim to fame revolves around going very quickly in a straight line.

But I would argue that the engineering achievement was designing an EV platform and then fitting a stylish car around it. Rather than taking a conventional vehicle and shoehorning some batteries and an electric motor into it.
And then adding next gen infotainment
And then adding Autopilot
And then producing an SUV
And then producing a midsize ‘affordable’ sedan.

Most ‘green’ vehicle manufacturers seem to be obsessed with making their vehicles look ‘different’, and as a consequence it is hard to approach them without their looks causing a small amount of bile to rise to your mouth.

A car is a car. An engine is an engine. An EV is just a car. Infotainment, autopilot, SUV, mid size applies to any car. Given the the EV engine is smaller, there is no manual or automatic transmission, I cant see the issue. Yes you have to find a home for the batteries, but with spaced saved on the fuel tank and transmission, I dont see this is a an engineering marvel. Its just an engine and drivetrain. You can pop a 5.7L V8 in any car if you wish. So I don't really see any engineering achievement here.

Linuxluver

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#2271757 8-Jul-2019 11:17

Dingbatt:

Most ‘green’ vehicle manufacturers seem to be obsessed with making their vehicles look ‘different’, and as a consequence it is hard to approach them without their looks causing a small amount of bile to rise to your mouth.

But....I like all those new stylings. They are typically based on the car as it is....and not as petrol cars used to be. The BMW i3 is really cool. Even the rearward-opening passengers doors. :-) The 2010-2016 LEAF was / is actually - when you tear it down - an early SUV X-over......bigger boot than a Kona, seats all sitting up high and straight, hatch at the back.....but overall more aero-dynamic. Years ahead of its time. :-) True...it doesn't have the black, plastic trims around the wheel wells.

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Linuxluver

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#2271760 8-Jul-2019 11:23

tdgeek:

A car is a car. An engine is an engine. An EV is just a car. Infotainment, autopilot, SUV, mid size applies to any car. Given the the EV engine is smaller, there is no manual or automatic transmission, I cant see the issue. Yes you have to find a home for the batteries, but with spaced saved on the fuel tank and transmission, I dont see this is a an engineering marvel. Its just an engine and drivetrain. You can pop a 5.7L V8 in any car if you wish. So I don't really see any engineering achievement here.

Typing out your words is easy.

Actually putting the new (someone had to design and build and test a new electric motor for a car) stuff (someone had to design and build and test battery cells and packs and modules of packs and the container and the coolant method for a car) and put it all in a vehicle and meet all the safety standards and ensuring it will all last 20 years.....and design and build and test regen / charging - AC and DC - and fast chargers to match.

THAT's the engineering. That's 100% engineering....and it's much harder than typing it out. :-)

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Linuxluver

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#2271762 8-Jul-2019 11:26

GV27:

I'd also argue there's far more engineering achievement in a Golf-sized hatch that can do 350km on a charge than a 4.5m long executive saloon whose claim to fame revolves around going very quickly in a straight line.

If that's all there was to it, you'd be right. But that's not all there is to it.

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tdgeek

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#2271763 8-Jul-2019 11:27

Linuxluver:

tdgeek:

A car is a car. An engine is an engine. An EV is just a car. Infotainment, autopilot, SUV, mid size applies to any car. Given the the EV engine is smaller, there is no manual or automatic transmission, I cant see the issue. Yes you have to find a home for the batteries, but with spaced saved on the fuel tank and transmission, I dont see this is a an engineering marvel. Its just an engine and drivetrain. You can pop a 5.7L V8 in any car if you wish. So I don't really see any engineering achievement here.

Typing out your words is easy.

Actually putting the new (someone had to design and build and test a new electric motor for a car) stuff (someone had to deisgn and build and test battery cells and packs and modules of packs and the container and the coolant method for a car) and put it all in a vehicle and meet all the safety standards and ensureing it will all last 20 years.....THAT's the engineering. That's 100% engineering....and it's much harder than typing it out. :-)

I agree but we have been doing that forever with vehicles that have a far more complex and heat generating design. And EV's are not new either

GV27

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#2271765 8-Jul-2019 11:29

Linuxluver:

GV27:

I'd also argue there's far more engineering achievement in a Golf-sized hatch that can do 350km on a charge than a 4.5m long executive saloon whose claim to fame revolves around going very quickly in a straight line.

If that's all there was to it, you'd be right. But that's not all there is to it.

I didn't say there was. But it's the same logic behind I have always found four-pot AWD 1990s JDM cars far more interesting that big cumbersome yankee supertanks. I mean, where is the achievement in putting a big engine in a massive car?

Obraik

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#2271773 8-Jul-2019 11:50

GV27:

Linuxluver:

To put it another way......none of Tesla's competitors in the EV space have produced a care than can match the 2012 Tesla Model S. Tesla has an EV tech lead of almost a decade over everyone else.

Is the 0 - 60 time the only thing that matters? There's a lot to be saidabout the build quality for the price of a Tesla S, which is still astronomical.

The engineering is where Tesla is excelling in the EV world. No other manufacture has managed to make a car with the same efficiency as even the 2012 Model S yet. Audi and Jaguar have started making cars with more battery capacity than the 2012 Model S yet can't get the same range that it had.

Looking to buy a Tesla? Use my referral link and we both get credits

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2271774 8-Jul-2019 11:50

Dingbatt:
GV27:

I'd also argue there's far more engineering achievement in a Golf-sized hatch that can do 350km on a charge than a 4.5m long executive saloon whose claim to fame revolves around going very quickly in a straight line.

But I would argue that the engineering achievement was designing an EV platform and then fitting a stylish car around it. Rather than taking a conventional vehicle and shoehorning some batteries and an electric motor into it.
And then adding next gen infotainment
And then adding Autopilot
And then producing an SUV
And then producing a midsize ‘affordable’ sedan.

Most ‘green’ vehicle manufacturers seem to be obsessed with making their vehicles look ‘different’, and as a consequence it is hard to approach them without their looks causing a small amount of bile to rise to your mouth.

I'm sure I read or watched something about this in a video a while back. A manufacturer doesn't want to 'scare' off customers by making a EV radically different in terms of styling to the rest of the fleet\range

At the higher end of the market Mercedes, Audi and Porsche have there EV's looking very much the same as there ICE equivalents.

Take the Audi e-Tron, that looks almost identical to the Q8 SUV. The Mercedes is in a similar fashion, unless you're really into your cars, I'm guessing an everyday person on the street would struggle to pick the EV Mercedes between the EQC and a GLE.

The upcoming Porsche Taycan looks a bit like a Panamera variant.

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