afe66: Maintenance costs of ev are less though

They are yes. But its pretty minimal? Save on oil and labour. I dont have a bill handy but I guess its over $100 per annual service, so not real;ly substantial, but certainly another benefit

The financials depend a lot on how depreciation compares between petrol vs electric vehicles. Some people argue that petrol/diesel vehicles will depreciate faster because there will be less demand for them in the coming years, while others argue that electric vehicles will depreciate faster because the new price of them is declining rapidly.

Whether there is depreciation parity in $ terms or % terms makes a big difference to the TCO due to the significant difference in capital outlay. 

tdgeek:

 

afe66: Maintenance costs of ev are less though

 

They are yes. But its pretty minimal? Save on oil and labour. I dont have a bill handy but I guess its over $100 per annual service, so not real;ly substantial, but certainly another benefit

 

Assuming everything continues working as it should. Engines are made of many individual moving items along with other items under lots of heat and pressure that all suffer wear and tear and sometimes, failure. Starter motors, alternators, water pumps, fuel pumps, gaskets, spark plugs, etc etc are all not unheard of to fail. While the part itself is not always expensive due to how tightly packed engines are these days, getting to these items can involve ripping apart half the engine bay to get to them which takes many labour hours. If they happen to fail while you're driving then that can significantly increase the costs.

tdgeek:

afe66: Maintenance costs of ev are less though

They are yes. But its pretty minimal? Save on oil and labour. I dont have a bill handy but I guess its over $100 per annual service, so not real;ly substantial, but certainly another benefit

Obraik:

 

Assuming everything continues working as it should. Engines are made of many individual moving items along with other items under lots of heat and pressure that all suffer wear and tear and sometimes, failure. Starter motors, alternators, water pumps, fuel pumps, gaskets, spark plugs, etc etc are all not unheard of to fail. While the part itself is not always expensive due to how tightly packed engines are these days, getting to these items can involve ripping apart half the engine bay to get to them which takes many labour hours. If they happen to fail while you're driving then that can significantly increase the costs.

 

All fair points. The point made was annual servicing costs, but its fair to extrapolate that to more a case of a big repair job or not. For those buying a pre owned EV, I guess maybe you need to consider battery replacement in the future? An ICE can do 300,000km with minimal engine decline, so no one expects to replace and engine. 300,000km in a standard EV such as Kona or MG be the same?

jonathan18:

That's impressive if your car servicing costs around $100 a year! I'm thinking a more realistic amount would be $300-$450, noting an ICE car will have additional but less frequent costs associated with various filters etc that an EV doesn't have.
As a comparison, I'd pay about $550 total for my twice a year services (damn diesels), so that's about $1500 over three last three years. My wife's Leaf has required a bottle of windscreen cleaner in the three years we've owned it, that's it.

No! :-)  The value of the oil (never cheap) and labour. Maybe allow $150 max probably. Our servicing is around $350, unless its tyres time

tdgeek:

 

All fair points. The point made was annual servicing costs, but its fair to extrapolate that to more a case of a big repair job or not. For those buying a pre owned EV, I guess maybe you need to consider battery replacement in the future? An ICE can do 300,000km with minimal engine decline, so no one expects to replace and engine. 300,000km in a standard EV such as Kona or MG be the same?

 

Excluding the Leaf and others without thermal management, it's unlikely a battery replacement will be a consideration during the life of modern EVs that use proper thermal management of their packs. The MG ZS EV and Kona both have this.

Obraik:

tdgeek:

All fair points. The point made was annual servicing costs, but its fair to extrapolate that to more a case of a big repair job or not. For those buying a pre owned EV, I guess maybe you need to consider battery replacement in the future? An ICE can do 300,000km with minimal engine decline, so no one expects to replace and engine. 300,000km in a standard EV such as Kona or MG be the same?

Excluding the Leaf and others without thermal management, it's unlikely a battery replacement will be a consideration during the life of modern EVs that use proper thermal management of their packs. The MG ZS EV and Kona both have this.

Ge0rge: 

 

What is the expected life of a modern EV?

It's hard to say because none have really failed yet :)

However, there are examples of Tesla's in the US and EU that have done over 500k KM on a single pack and still have over 90% of their factory capacity remaining. It's almost impossible to find reports of Hyundai Kona's with any significant degradation after years of ownership - infact I can't find any. 

Obraik:

 

Ge0rge: 

 

What is the expected life of a modern EV?

 

It's hard to say because none have really failed yet :)

 

However, there are examples of Tesla's in the US and EU that have done over 500k KM on a single pack and still have over 90% of their factory capacity remaining. It's almost impossible to find reports of Hyundai Kona's with any significant degradation after years of ownership - infact I can't find any. 

 

All the other parts of the car will still wear out though... suspension, brakes, paint, upholstery, switches, wiring, cassette players.

Whilst an engine swap is possible in an ICE, it's rarely done nowadays because the rest of the car is pretty much worn out. I expect that the same would apply to an EV of a similar age and mileage... it wouldn't be worth replacing the ($10K?) battery of 20yo, 300,000km Leaf or Kona. But if batteries lasted 500,000km, perhaps car manufacturers might design cars for longer lives (and thereby reduce the emissions in manufacturing the car).

kingdragonfly:

These vague promises must be really hurting EV dealers, as customers wait and wait and wait for the an actual deal. A simple "no it's not going to happen" would be preferable.

Stuff: Government takes to the airwaves, promising big change on climate policy

...Prominent breakfast TV host Duncan Garner even asked Climate Change Minister James Shaw to get on with giving Kiwis cheaper electric cars.

“How big will the incentives be for us to go and buy an electric car? You give us a big incentive [and] we’ll go and do it,” Garner said.

“You’ve been telling us that for a while, Duncan – it’s on the way,” Shaw replied.

...The policy is called a feebate, the “fee” being the levy on polluting cars, and the “bate” being a rebate consumers get if they purchase cleaner alternatives. In 2019 the Government consulted on a plan that would have made clean cars up to $8000 cheaper, while polluting cars would have been $3000 more expensive.
...

The big problem with the feebate scheme is equity .. Many of the people who end up paying the "fee" have no choices to go electric,

People who buy people movers, Trudie Utes, etc, all have very little if any electric options..

But they end up paying so those buying "regular" new cars  can have a cheaper EV option....

kingdragonfly:

These vague promises must be really hurting EV dealers, as customers wait and wait and wait for the an actual deal. A simple "no it's not going to happen" would be preferable.

Stuff: Government takes to the airwaves, promising big change on climate policy

...Prominent breakfast TV host Duncan Garner even asked Climate Change Minister James Shaw to get on with giving Kiwis cheaper electric cars.

“How big will the incentives be for us to go and buy an electric car? You give us a big incentive [and] we’ll go and do it,” Garner said.

“You’ve been telling us that for a while, Duncan – it’s on the way,” Shaw replied.

...The policy is called a feebate, the “fee” being the levy on polluting cars, and the “bate” being a rebate consumers get if they purchase cleaner alternatives. In 2019 the Government consulted on a plan that would have made clean cars up to $8000 cheaper, while polluting cars would have been $3000 more expensive.
...

Fiddling around the edges. It's on it's way, so's Christmas. I wouldn't mind taking bets on which arrives first.

Technofreak:Fiddling around the edges. It's on it's way, so's Christmas. I wouldn't mind taking bets on which arrives first.

 

EV registrations are low

Are they not selling?