Formula 1 2022 Season Discussion

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#2966138 12-Sep-2022 13:01

The mercedes 3 engines in one race weekend was poor but it was likely to be exploited by someone else and the FIA did the right thing... but like all FIA things, you can be surprised (or maybe not) that the loop hole existed in the first place!

mdf

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#2966139 12-Sep-2022 13:01

PolicyGuy:

<snip>

Would that - five rounds still to go - be the earliest a Formula 1 Championship has been decided?

Michael Schumacher won it in 2002 with six races to go. In a 17 race calendar. And finished on the podium in every race. Dominant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Formula_One_World_Championship.

Between this and Hakkinen retiring, I took a break from regularly watching races after this season.

thermonuclear

601 posts

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#2966175 12-Sep-2022 14:36

Good race, somewhat spoiled by the SC situation, though the winner was largely decided before that incident anyway. Verstappen is running away with it, this season has been interesting because of the new cars but has definitely lacked for the excitement of the 2021 season with the Ferrari challenge falling away and the Mercedes challenge taking too long to get up to speed.

Ferrari again missed a trick by bringing Sainz in and losing the 3rd place to Mercedes. Their strategy team has been woeful, I wonder how long before Binotto's position comes under scrutiny.

Three weeks now until Singapore, I guess there's the driver market to keep us entertained in the meantime. Could potentially be a big intake of new drivers for 2023 if Latifi, Schumacher, Ricciardo and Tsunoda join Vettel on the sidelines, as has been variously suggested by media pundits.

tdgeek

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#2966180 12-Sep-2022 14:49

thermonuclear:

Three weeks now until Singapore, I guess there's the driver market to keep us entertained in the meantime. Could potentially be a big intake of new drivers for 2023 if Latifi, Schumacher, Ricciardo and Tsunoda join Vettel on the sidelines, as has been variously suggested by media pundits.

I thought MSC was good, a nice pass on the first chicane. But yes, a driver free for all coming to your TV soon

PolicyGuy

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#2966249 12-Sep-2022 16:20

thermonuclear:

I guess there's the driver market to keep us entertained in the meantime. Could potentially be a big intake of new drivers for 2023 if Latifi, Schumacher, Ricciardo and Tsunoda join Vettel on the sidelines, as has been variously suggested by media pundits.

I suspect that Nyck de Vries' performance may have cooked Latifi's goose.
The fact that de Vries finished in the points (9th) and Latifi finished next-to-last (15th) of the cars still running seems to indicate that it's Latifi holding back the car rather than vice versa. Especially as de Vries only had FP3 & Qualy to get used to the car and track.

everettpsycho

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#2966372 12-Sep-2022 20:12

PolicyGuy:
I suspect that Nyck de Vries' performance may have cooked Latifi's goose.
The fact that de Vries finished in the points (9th) and Latifi finished next-to-last (15th) of the cars still running seems to indicate that it's Latifi holding back the car rather than vice versa. Especially as de Vries only had FP3 & Qualy to get used to the car and track.

The fact he's 21st in a 20 driver series says it all really. Some will say de Vries was aided by retirements and grid penalties but all those out of place passed everyone and no matter what he was still well clear of latifi. The Man has to go surely, to be shown up by someone who had 36 hours notice to jump in a car not set up for him really shows how far off the pace he is.

The safety car was a bizarre series of events, I'm pretty sure Russel was meant to pass it and didn't because he thought the green light was orange, so thay meant the field was a total mess when they went to restart. Had they restarted after that he would have been almost a full lap behind the leaders out of place. The FIA have clarified they followed procedure here which I don't think you can argue with compared to a certain race last year, they are probably being overly cautious if anything to adhere to the rulebook after that mess. I do wonder if theres a better way to restart after a late incident, maybe a red flag and rolling restart if there's less than a certain distance remaining to make less chaotic than a standing start but not run out the clock in a procession.

thermonuclear

601 posts

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#2966406 12-Sep-2022 22:53

everettpsycho:
PolicyGuy:

I suspect that Nyck de Vries' performance may have cooked Latifi's goose.
The fact that de Vries finished in the points (9th) and Latifi finished next-to-last (15th) of the cars still running seems to indicate that it's Latifi holding back the car rather than vice versa. Especially as de Vries only had FP3 & Qualy to get used to the car and track.

The fact he's 21st in a 20 driver series says it all really. Some will say de Vries was aided by retirements and grid penalties but all those out of place passed everyone and no matter what he was still well clear of latifi. The Man has to go surely, to be shown up by someone who had 36 hours notice to jump in a car not set up for him really shows how far off the pace he is.

Well Latifi is, in essence, a pay-driver. I've read suggestions that his family funded Williams to the tune of 40 million a year, which sounds extremely high to me, but who would know for sure? As ownership passed from Frank and Claire into corporate stewardship, perhaps the need for the Latifi cash is no longer as important.

It gets into a wider discussion for me as to what should Formula 1 be about. Should it be the pinnacle of single seat car racing where the 20 best drivers in the world ply their trade; an engineering competition showcasing cutting edge technologies; or something in between?

My personal opinion is that it IS a shame that there are so few seats available to begin with, and that some of them in any given season are occupied by journeymen drivers who are not among the 20 best in the world. I realise that's a simplistic or idealistic view of things which doesn't account for the realities of the F1 circus.

But seeing de Vries come in and make such an immediate impression, you do wonder (or I do anyway) how many other drivers are floating around F2 or Indycar which would do a much better job than the incumbents, even guys such as Bottas, Sainz and Perez.

None of them are likely to be World Champion now, all are/were out-shadowed by better drivers in their teams, all have had lengthy careers to rise to the top if they could. I'd much rather see those seats go to three fresh drivers who could potentially be much better. It would make F1 an even more interesting watch for me at least.

Of course, that doesn't suit the top teams normally who would rather have someone pretty good to be the number two, rather than someone really good. Prost-Senna, Rosberg-Hamilton, demonstrate that it can often be more trouble than it's worth. They only need one good driver to secure the driver's title and a second driver that can hoover up a reasonable number of points to secure the constructor's title.

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thermonuclear

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#2976362 2-Oct-2022 16:10

Time for the Singapore GP tonight, just watched the qualy replay on F1 TV. What a Ferrari-level stuff-up by the RBR wall with the fuel though I think Verstappen throwing his toys on the radio was a little unfair, given how good they normally are. He wasn't entirely blameless in what eventuated.

Lawson and Sargent both spotted in their team garages. Sorry to say I think Lawson's chance of making F1 is now in the rear view mirror. Doesn't look like he's been first choice replacement at AT for some time with Herta and now de Vries' names being talked up as the replacement for a Gasly move to Alpine.

Feel bad for the kid but that's the ruthlessness of top level sport I suppose, you've got to take your chances when you get them.

Batman

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#2976705 3-Oct-2022 11:00

Perez destroyed Le Clerc.

Other than that, all you need to watch is turn 1 of the 1st lap.

Benoire

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#2976706 3-Oct-2022 11:02

It was rather depressing. The cars can follow closer, Yay!, but still require a considerable speed offset to overtake when the track is too tight and twisty for lunges... Hamilton's attempt on Vettel showed the problem with Singapore, the track just cannot dry out for the race to work and provide entertainment bar drivers making mistakes.

tdgeek

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#2976707 3-Oct-2022 11:12

Benoire:

It was rather depressing. The cars can follow closer, Yay!, but still require a considerable speed offset to overtake when the track is too tight and twisty for lunges... Hamilton's attempt on Vettel showed the problem with Singapore, the track just cannot dry out for the race to work and provide entertainment bar drivers making mistakes.

Pretty much. If it was dry, same issues. I guess it's a marketing track than a race track

Benoire

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#2976708 3-Oct-2022 11:14

tdgeek:

Benoire:

It was rather depressing. The cars can follow closer, Yay!, but still require a considerable speed offset to overtake when the track is too tight and twisty for lunges... Hamilton's attempt on Vettel showed the problem with Singapore, the track just cannot dry out for the race to work and provide entertainment bar drivers making mistakes.

Pretty much. If it was dry, same issues. I guess it's a marketing track than a race track

for the most part yes, except that late breaking would have worked as in the dry you have multiple lines in to corners rather than the only semi-dry line. I dont like singapore becuase its not just that fun to watch!

Batman

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#2976789 3-Oct-2022 14:51

Benoire:

It was rather depressing. The cars can follow closer, Yay!, but still require a considerable speed offset to overtake when the track is too tight and twisty for lunges... Hamilton's attempt on Vettel showed the problem with Singapore, the track just cannot dry out for the race to work and provide entertainment bar drivers making mistakes.

i don't think it's necessarily the track, it's just another street circuit. the 2 causes are

1. aero - means you can't follow

2. cars too big, too wide https://www.grandprix247.com/2022/02/05/andretti-never-understood-why-formula-1-went-to-wider-cars-and-wings/

Benoire

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#2976837 3-Oct-2022 14:56

In the wet at singapore it is, a drying track provides for fun as long as it dries but night races with high humidity cannot dry as the water cannot evaporate anywhere so it just sits... unless you have inters or wet tyres, slicks cannot overtake in to non-dry line corners as shown by Hamilton and a few others sliding off the track. The cars are bigger but that caters for the safety and engine size of them... the close following is now showing that the aero is working better for the racing and not the car, even more so when at Monza DRS didn't really do a vast amount.

As noted before, you either constrain the size of the engines to simple v6/8/10/12 without any of the environmental side, remove the driver safety protections or just accept that these things are big like all cars (compare a BMW e36 to an e90 or worse an old mini to a new mini) for safety reasons and that they need to carry their fuel rather than refill trackside in the race.

tdgeek

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#2976889 3-Oct-2022 18:03

Batman:

Benoire:

It was rather depressing. The cars can follow closer, Yay!, but still require a considerable speed offset to overtake when the track is too tight and twisty for lunges... Hamilton's attempt on Vettel showed the problem with Singapore, the track just cannot dry out for the race to work and provide entertainment bar drivers making mistakes.

i don't think it's necessarily the track, it's just another street circuit. the 2 causes are

1. aero - means you can't follow

2. cars too big, too wide https://www.grandprix247.com/2022/02/05/andretti-never-understood-why-formula-1-went-to-wider-cars-and-wings/

You can, did you watch Max early on?

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