Christchurch Mosque Shooting

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › Christchurch Mosque Shooting

1 | ... | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79

2394 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2551222 28-Aug-2020 11:56

Heh, this sort of thing isn't something that a couple of politicians can agree amongst themselves. You will need parliament in both countries to pass laws to enable it. And if NZ is serious about its own obligations towards the rule of law, UN treaty obligations around treatment of prisoners etc, and to ensure that its own HC's sentence is properly upheld, it should make independent inquiries of how he's going to be held and secured etc.

Get excited if and when it happens. These things aren't just about soundbites and what makes people feel good.

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2551223 28-Aug-2020 11:57

freitasm:

What guarantees would we have that this piece of sht does not leave an Australian prison, ever?

I'd suggest Australian Prisons are every bit as secure as our own, and given Morrison agreed with his sentence, do you have a reason to believe he would get out?

I doubt they want him out and about in Australia.

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2551224 28-Aug-2020 11:58

dejadeadnz:

Heh, this sort of thing isn't something that a couple of politicians can agree amongst themselves. You will need parliament in both countries to pass laws to enable it. And if NZ is serious about its own obligations towards the rule of law, UN treaty obligations around treatment of prisoners etc, and to ensure that its own HC's sentence is properly upheld, it should make independent inquiries of how he's going to be held and secured etc.

Get excited if and when it happens. These things aren't just about soundbites and what makes people feel good.

If there is a will, there is a way. I'd be surprised if it happens though.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2551225 28-Aug-2020 11:59

networkn:

freitasm:

What guarantees would we have that this piece of sht does not leave an Australian prison, ever?

I'd suggest Australian Prisons are every bit as secure as our own, and given Morrison agreed with his sentence, do you have a reason to believe he would get out?

I doubt they want him out and about in Australia.

Trust an Australian politician to keep a New Zealand-convicted Australian in jail until the politics of the country change and they have no allegiance to uphold.

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2551227 28-Aug-2020 12:12

freitasm:

Trust an Australian politician to keep a New Zealand-convicted Australian in jail until the politics of the country change and they have no allegiance to uphold.

Huh? He would just be involved in pushing along the legislation, it's the Australian prison system who would be responsible for ensuring he doesn't escape?

Until we see they have agreed to at least as similar terms as what he would have been getting here, we wouldn't release him into their "care"

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2551234 28-Aug-2020 12:23

networkn:

Huh? He would just be involved in pushing along the legislation, it's the Australian prison system who would be responsible for ensuring he doesn't escape?

I am not worried about him escaping. I am worried about him being released at some point if sent back to Australia.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2551338 28-Aug-2020 14:21

People fantasise about suitable punishments for this horrible person. I don't think any form of death would be suitable. Death is quick, even when drawn out, and some would see it as an escape. Jeffrey Epstein is an example.

The killer is a young person in good health. By nature, young people have energy. It can be very draining on a young person when that energy cannot be applied to something. Limiting access to resources and freedom of movement is already punishing to someone young and active. He knows how to use the Internet. That will no longer be available to him. He knows about weapons. He will no longer be able to see and handle them. His opportunities for information and exercise will be restricted. He will be made to spend long periods of time alone with his thoughts and little else, for year after year after year. His small collection of memories will slowly fade. He will gradually grow old with no hope of escape or reprieve. He will never experience a woman's touch, or a walk in the woods, or a day on the beach. The smells and sounds and sensations of his youth will drip away. The freedom his money gave him will never return. He will sit and think, and sit and think, and sit and think. I wish him a long life. As the end finally approaches, I hope he will vaguely recall the outdoor freedom he once enjoyed and threw away, and long for it again. I don't expect someone like him ever to feel true remorse, but I wish him a tonne of regret!

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

JaseNZ

2576 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2551341 28-Aug-2020 14:31

How would it cost 5k a day ??

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding : Ice cream man , Ice cream man

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2551344 28-Aug-2020 14:36

freitasm:

I am not worried about him escaping. I am worried about him being released at some point if sent back to Australia.

I seriously don't think the NZ Government would agree to the possibility of a lesser sentence. Plus, in reality, they are going to be just as keen to ensure he isn't out and about to cause havoc.

Having said that, I could see lots of issues if he can appeal and appeal and appeal the way some criminals do, if he is in Australia. I have no idea how that would work, but it could be messy and that may be one reason for keeping him here.

I don't think this guy is done causing trouble yet, unfortunately.

PsychoSmiley

250 posts

Master Geek

#2551484 28-Aug-2020 17:13

freitasm:

I am not worried about him escaping. I am worried about him being released at some point if sent back to Australia.

Martin Bryant is still very much locked up Tasmania as a result of the Port Arthur massacre in '96.

tehgerbil

1102 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Subscriber

#2551486 28-Aug-2020 17:14

Don't underestimate how much Australian politics is embroiled in scandal and how little morals many Aussie politicians have.

I would have no doubt, as Freitasm has indicated he could be weaponised in Australia as a political football. Think, 10, 20 years in the future.

Not saying it's going to happen now, but of all the places that will always and forever keep him locked up New Zealand is the best bet.

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2551570 28-Aug-2020 21:02

networkn:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12360308

If they are open to it, I 100% support sending him over there to serve his sentence in Australia. Morrison has said he is happy to consider a one-off special case which wouldn't impact current arrangements.

I am not sure how much say the families here have over that decision, but even if they wanted him here, the cost of incarcerating him shouldn't be worn by the NZ taxpayers.

I'm 100% against it. The crimes were committed here and the murderer was brought to justice here. The murderer belongs in the custody of our legal system. Lastly the victims, and families of the victims, and everyone else in NZ will ~always~ have much more influence over our legal system compared to influence over a different country.

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2551572 28-Aug-2020 21:13

tehgerbil: Don't underestimate how much Australian politics is embroiled in scandal and how little morals many Aussie politicians have. I would have no doubt, as Freitasm has indicated he could be weaponised in Australia as a political football. Think, 10, 20 years in the future.

Good point. The worst case is some future Australian government wants something from NZ and threatens release or change to agreed conditions until it gets it. If anyone does not believe they would do things like that just read about Australia in relation to post independence East Timor's oil.

PsychoSmiley

250 posts

Master Geek

#2552733 30-Aug-2020 22:46

If you think that AU would hypothetically 'weaponise' him, you have to accept the equally absurd notion that NZ could use him in a similar manner versus AU.

To even attempt such a thing would be political suicide regardless of who tried it, let alone believing he would survive outside the prison system without somebody extracting revenge on him.

I'm Australian and I know politics are loopy over there but nobody would even consider releasing him. You release him you release Bryant too.

I think he belongs where he belongs but trying think he would become a tool of some sort is on par with qanon drivel.

gzt

17104 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2552736 30-Aug-2020 22:56

Political suicide in New Zealand, yes. Political suicide in Australia, no.

1 | ... | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79