GCSB Protest March

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#867079 27-Jul-2013 15:50

DonGould:
turnin: well, there are literally thousands of people protesting in Auckland and I believe Wellington is similar. Looks like people really don't want to have their lives recorded by governments. Who would have thought.

and in chc. I'm there right now.

Sadly, I have the b***** flu. Not impressed to be sitting here. :-/

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

macuser

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#867081 27-Jul-2013 15:55

Here is a quick pano I shot on my phone at the Dunedin protest, very calm, a couple good speakers and also a few speakers pushing the Labour agenda. Probably about 3-400 people at a guess.

oxnsox

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#867119 27-Jul-2013 17:08

For those of you who don't see the need to protect your privacy, here is a real and recent example that happened to me earlier this year.

I approached a bank to query an advertised offer. As part of the process they requested my surname and entered it into their system. .... at which point the computer completed a number of fields idendifying me uniquely.

I had never had any association with this bank (or it's parent) previously.

To take advantage of the offer I was required to supply additional data (proof of employment, bank statement for income etc).This required supplying documentary evidence, which was copied at the bank.

I decided, however, not to proceed and visited the bank to retrieve my documents and request that they delete any reference of me from their system.

I was told my file could not be deleted for 7 years, once the data had been entered in the system........ and that they would retain the copies of the documentation. I advised them I had no ongoing contract with them, and ripped up their doument file in front of them. But I'm still working to ensure they have no personal information of me in their systems.

And that for me is reason enough to protect my privacy.

networkn

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#867122 27-Jul-2013 17:18

oxnsox: For those of you who don't see the need to protect your privacy, here is a real and recent example that happened to me earlier this year.

I approached a bank to query an advertised offer. As part of the process they requested my surname and entered it into their system. .... at which point the computer completed a number of fields idendifying me uniquely.

I had never had any association with this bank (or it's parent) previously.

To take advantage of the offer I was required to supply additional data (proof of employment, bank statement for income etc).This required supplying documentary evidence, which was copied at the bank.

I decided, however, not to proceed and visited the bank to retrieve my documents and request that they delete any reference of me from their system.

I was told my file could not be deleted for 7 years, once the data had been entered in the system........ and that they would retain the copies of the documentation. I advised them I had no ongoing contract with them, and ripped up their doument file in front of them. But I'm still working to ensure they have no personal information of me in their systems.

And that for me is reason enough to protect my privacy.

Surely you know that financial institutions share information? This isn't new, it's not even that scary.

The sky isn't falling.

freitasm

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#867126 27-Jul-2013 17:23

networkn: Surely you know that financial institutions share information? This isn't new, it's not even that scary.

The sky isn't falling.

If financial institutions share personal information, then I am sure they would be in breach of the privacy act. They might get information from a credit agency, but if you have no business with a specific bank they shouldn't keep records about you.

networkn

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#867130 27-Jul-2013 17:31

freitasm:
networkn: Surely you know that financial institutions share information? This isn't new, it's not even that scary.

The sky isn't falling.

If financial institutions share personal information, then I am sure they would be in breach of the privacy act. They might get information from a credit agency, but if you have no business with a specific bank they shouldn't keep records about you.

Actually if you check the fine print of almost any financial application you will see a section authorizing them to share information with others, the wording differs but is fairly broad. Chances are they pulled that information from a credit agency.

oxnsox

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#867142 27-Jul-2013 17:59

networkn:
freitasm:
networkn: Surely you know that financial institutions share information? This isn't new, it's not even that scary.

The sky isn't falling.

If financial institutions share personal information, then I am sure they would be in breach of the privacy act. They might get information from a credit agency, but if you have no business with a specific bank they shouldn't keep records about you.

Actually if you check the fine print of almost any financial application you will see a section authorizing them to share information with others, the wording differs but is fairly broad. Chances are they pulled that information from a credit agency.

And should my personal information be linked to that of my partner in these systems??

My point is that an organisation I have no dealings with have personal data on me that I have not authorised for them to hold. Therefore I have not authorised forvthem to share it. And the same goes for data relating to my partner, who did not specifically contact them, deal with them, or provide any authorisation.
And being a bank with ownership offshore this means I likely have less control over it. How, for instance, do I prove this organisation don, t (haven, t) released my personal information in the future (if it is shared, lost, or released) ihug I have no relationship with them. Or the government whom they report to.

As Salty and others have said, it's not necessarily about the way you see your situation and the government of the day right now. The debate is about tomorrow, and how individuals and organisations and the state may use todays data in the future.

Being not guilty today, doesn't guarantee your right to freedom tomorrow.

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Send money globally for less with Wise - one free transfer up to NZ$900 (affiliate link).

JimmyH

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#867143 27-Jul-2013 18:05

Klipspringer:
MattEast:
Would you be happy for the police to swing by at the drop of a hat and have a look through your house, check the draws, make sure the car is warranted etc etc.

Would not be too bad actually. Im a law abiding citizen.

If the cops did that they would rid the neighborhood of all the troublesome characters.

I'm starting to see a theme in your responses. In this thread and a couple of others you have posted view the include being:

- In favour of Police being to warrently enter and search properties if they feel like it
- In favour of jailing someone indefinitely is they exercise their right to silence
- In favour of legalising massive extension of reaching surveillance of the general law-abiding citizenry, without judicial oversight (as you have "nothing to hide"), and
- In support of mandatory government filtering of legal material you don't approve of on the internet, so that other people can't see it.

There are already countries that have such regimes in place now. If you really consider it would make such a difference to your families quality of life, have you considered moving to one of them? That way you would be happy without taking our civil liberties away? Dubai, Iran and China might make suitable destinations for you to consider.

PaulBags

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#867144 27-Jul-2013 18:10

networkn: Despite what most people seem to think, the Government has what it believes is our best interests in play as did the Government before it and the one before that. I am not saying mistakes aren't made, but people really need to shift their focus a little I think.

I don't believe that for a second. I don't believe that backroom deals and secret warrants happen in the name of the public good, if they did they wouldn't need to be kept secret. And even if the government did have our best interests at heart, I also believe that transparency and accountability are the only way to ensure that the government has our best interests at heart.

DonGould:
KiwiNZ: Spying on the "whole" population, say what now? That is a crazy notion the bottom line is the GCSB does not and will not have the resources for that. Exaggerating the problem will not help the cause, it is more likely to turn people off.

This is why HTTPS encryption is now 2048 bit.We don't have the power to crack that right now. But we do have the power to record it and store it until we do have that power.Moore's law tells us about power.What we're talking about today is the business of putting the laws in place to enable these bad things.We've already seen GSCB heads admit that they just 'use' the rules and bend them to fit what they want to do.This is the whole point here. We need to put a stop to this before it gets out of hand.

That doesn't mean the law won't simply force servers to allow them unencrypted access. The wording of one of the new laws bans VPNs that don't provide a back door for them. And who says we can't crack it now anyway, just because the public can't doesn't mean the GCSB can't either (well, more likely the NSA, who might share some outdated cracking info with NZ for some economy destroying trade agreements).

DonGould

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#867169 27-Jul-2013 19:41

Well that was interesting.

I haven't been to a protest before.

It was very interesting to hear some of the speakers and some of the history behind this stuff.

I can start to see why many folk don't think it's even worth having the discussion when you listen to the history of how many times laws have been changed to suit the actions of law enforcement.

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

DonGould

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#867170 27-Jul-2013 19:43

macuser: Here is a quick pano I shot on my phone at the Dunedin protest, very calm, a couple good speakers and also a few speakers pushing the Labour agenda. Probably about 3-400 people at a guess.

That really is very cool.

I wonder how many people were at the march in Christchurch.

I was at the front, so I couldn't see how many were up the back.

Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - don@i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz

Woolly

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#867219 27-Jul-2013 21:15

Adhesion Contracts

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Adhesion+Contract

By voting you agree to the current and previous governments policies and are eligible for all benefits offered and all rules created.

As a side note anyone considering GE Money Cards or Q Cards for Interest Free Credit or otherwise should read the terms.
http://www.qcard.co.nz/images/pdfs/termsandconditions.pdf
Look under paragraph 26. Security Agreement
To paraphrase the company can delegate an agent to come into your premises and take whatever they want.

This is the man any good intelligence agency should aspire to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover
Controlled the USG across many administrations.

The GCSB spying on NZ makes economic sense as it saves paying retainers in government departments and companies to spy on colleagues.
So if you ever wondered why some of your colleagues on the same pay scale can afford long trips overseas, you now know why. The trips are not all for pleasure.

I noticed previous posts referred to someones wife selling computer equipment to the government for money.
It's not my or anyone else's business who someone has commercial dealings with, unless they intend to harm others.

Money
Where does ~ 90% of money come from in NZ?

I hope all say, it comes from the borrowers signature.

Alas hope will be for another day.

Some may say this is off topic - The changes to GCSB rules are economic not social.

Long and short of it. - Money is created when someone makes a request for bank credit (It is not a loan).

http://tvnz.co.nz/seven-sharp/paying-interest-loan-never-existed-video-5336329 This is part of why TVNZ7 had to go.

Back on topic:

A well informed public with critical thinking is a threat to the system.

More powers need to be given to the GCSB, SIS and police to protect the system.

If the public (especially the army) become aware that the political, judicial and enforcement agencies are not in their interest, then those with the most invested stand to lose the most. The best way to combat this threat is by divide (For NZ race, gender maybe the best choice).

Discredit any individuals who have a propensity to gather the herd.

Intelligence gathering of people of interest, then when the time is ripe expose their weaknesses and use the main stream media to amplify the effect.

Choose those of the judiciary that know their best interests are aligned with ours to try their cases.

If the public becomes too awakened, a false flag would be the next option.

MikeB4

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#867224 27-Jul-2013 21:42

Woolly: Adhesion Contracts

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Adhesion+Contract

By voting you agree to the current and previous governments policies and are eligible for all benefits offered and all rules created.

As a side note anyone considering GE Money Cards or Q Cards for Interest Free Credit or otherwise should read the terms.
http://www.qcard.co.nz/images/pdfs/termsandconditions.pdf
Look under paragraph 26. Security Agreement
To paraphrase the company can delegate an agent to come into your premises and take whatever they want.

This is the man any good intelligence agency should aspire to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover
Controlled the USG across many administrations.

The GCSB spying on NZ makes economic sense as it saves paying retainers in government departments and companies to spy on colleagues.
So if you ever wondered why some of your colleagues on the same pay scale can afford long trips overseas, you now know why. The trips are not all for pleasure.

I noticed previous posts referred to someones wife selling computer equipment to the government for money.
It's not my or anyone else's business who someone has commercial dealings with, unless they intend to harm others.

Money
Where does ~ 90% of money come from in NZ?

I hope all say, it comes from the borrowers signature.

Alas hope will be for another day.

Some may say this is off topic - The changes to GCSB rules are economic not social.

Long and short of it. - Money is created when someone makes a request for bank credit (It is not a loan).

http://tvnz.co.nz/seven-sharp/paying-interest-loan-never-existed-video-5336329 This is part of why TVNZ7 had to go.

Back on topic:

A well informed public with critical thinking is a threat to the system.

More powers need to be given to the GCSB, SIS and police to protect the system.

If the public (especially the army) become aware that the political, judicial and enforcement agencies are not in their interest, then those with the most invested stand to lose the most. The best way to combat this threat is by divide (For NZ race, gender maybe the best choice).

Discredit any individuals who have a propensity to gather the herd.

Intelligence gathering of people of interest, then when the time is ripe expose their weaknesses and use the main stream media to amplify the effect.

Choose those of the judiciary that know their best interests are aligned with ours to try their cases.

If the public becomes too awakened, a false flag would be the next option.

Give me a break, this thread has reached it's nadir. I'm out.

SaltyNZ

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#867295 28-Jul-2013 09:25

Report something the government doesn't like? Get spied on. At least they had the decency (or maybe it was just more convenient) to have the Americans do it for them.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

freitasm

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#867297 28-Jul-2013 09:54

There you go. One hand washes the other. If they don't have the capabily, the cousins do it.

This is just an example of a government branch intrusion. Journalists are just one of the cheques citizens have on governments - and we know how they have been treated by National lately.

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