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tdgeek
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  #2458634 9-Apr-2020 20:06
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frankv:
My point about the 14 day clock related to the time during which you might pass the infection on. I thought symptoms started about day 3. But likely there would be a bell curve of probabilities for that and the 10 day infectious period. Whilst I accept that someone is still infectious 50 days later if they're in hospital, they aren't going to pass it on. So I was only considering the time someone in the community would be infectious.

 

I feel thats valid, as the only issue we now is CT. A new CT case means there is another case that we cannot locate. If the 4 week lockdown is good enough to capture most infections, but not all, all our testing now will be those leaks, once Level 4 ends. They should be small leaks, scattered, and all the 6000 test capability will be focused on that. Whether 4 weeks should have been 6 or 8, is probably down to 4 will be good enough to suffocate most off the virus. The extra benefit of the 6 or 8 week option will be small, the effect on the business will rapidly escalate. Diminishing Returns.




frednz
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  #2458635 9-Apr-2020 20:07
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8202873/Jacinda-Ardern-declares-victory-coronavirus-lift-strict-lockdown-measures.html

 

Well, has NZ really "declared victory" over coronavirus as the above article's headline states? Well, no, not really, but it makes for a good "click-bait" headline.

 

Nevertheless, the article is worth looking at even if you just read the more than 300 comments that go with it. 

 

From the above article:

 

Ardern said she was 'cautiously optimistic' about limiting the outbreak which has only caused 992 confirmed cases and one death in New Zealand so far. 

 

Well, that's better, "cautiously optimistic" is certainly more moderate than having already "declared victory"!

 

Also from the article:

 

But epidemiologists who specialise in disease outbreaks, have warned that drastic decisions to shut down a country do not necessarily eliminate infections and could merely delay a spike in cases. 

 

Experts agree that lockdowns do 'flatten the curve' in the short-term but some say that when lifted, a spike in cases will inevitably occur.

 

UK Government advisers warned of a second COVID-19 wave in the autumn, upon the lifting of 'very stringent behavioural and social interventions'.

 

So, there is no room for complacency as we still have a long way to go yet as many on this forum have pointed out.

 

One of the comments on the article said this:

 

1) New Zealand is in the middle of nowhere - very easy to isolate 2) it has low population density so lots of people already remote from each other. Completely different and much easier challenge to deal with. Might as well compare some remote south pacific island with New Zealand and see how they compare!

 

I don't think it's been all that easy for us to isolate, considering the large number of tourists who visit here (and also the large number of Kiwis who have returned home).


frankv
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  #2458637 9-Apr-2020 20:11
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mattwnz:

However if the lockdown is working, and there is a 14 day incubation period, then shouldn't we start seeing no new cases after 14 days of lockdown? Or are these people essential workers, or medical staff, where transmission is still occurring at a lower level, or occurring due to interactions at places like supermarkets? Or are they people from the bubble of someone how has recently returned from overseas who is in self isolation?
Not sure if this level of detail  has been released. Hopefully now there are less cases, we will get more information on each new case and how they are linked, like we did originally when they first started reporting cases.



Well, 2 weeks into lockdown and the new cases are dropping fast, to the extent that now they're less than the number of recoveries each day. So I think 14 days is about right, give or take a couple of days. My assumption is that the new cases now are from all of those things. One hint is that probables are retrospectively changed to confirmed. So they've been tracked as being in contact with an infected person, labelled as probable and tested, and a couple of days later when the test results come back positive they're relabeled as confirmed.

I doubt we'll get much more information on each patient, due to privacy concerns. Unless the patient gives consent, the legality of what's now published is questionable.



tdgeek
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  #2458639 9-Apr-2020 20:16
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frednz:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8202873/Jacinda-Ardern-declares-victory-coronavirus-lift-strict-lockdown-measures.html

 

Well, has NZ really "declared victory" over coronavirus as the above article's headline states? Well, no, not really, but it makes for a good "click-bait" headline.

 

Nevertheless, the article is worth looking at even if you just read the more than 300 comments that go with it. 

 

From the above article:

 

Ardern said she was 'cautiously optimistic' about limiting the outbreak which has only caused 992 confirmed cases and one death in New Zealand so far. 

 

Well, that's better, "cautiously optimistic" is certainly more moderate than having already "declared victory"!

 

Also from the article:

 

But epidemiologists who specialise in disease outbreaks, have warned that drastic decisions to shut down a country do not necessarily eliminate infections and could merely delay a spike in cases. 

 

Experts agree that lockdowns do 'flatten the curve' in the short-term but some say that when lifted, a spike in cases will inevitably occur.

 

UK Government advisers warned of a second COVID-19 wave in the autumn, upon the lifting of 'very stringent behavioural and social interventions'.

 

So, there is no room for complacency as we still have a long way to go yet as many on this forum have pointed out.

 

 

Stupid article. Declared victory? Nothing of the sort. There is no complacency in NZ, IIRC, she called it a marathon. The article mentioned flatten the curve. We aren't doing that. Maybe the author needs to keep up to date. Note that level 3 is still quite restrictive.


kobiak
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  #2458640 9-Apr-2020 20:18
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https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/04/coronavirus-mystery-surrounds-covid-19-cluster-of-25-people-at-auckland-workplace.html 

This is worrying sign. Some unknown workplace that can't be named. They can't tell for privacy issues. Sounds like sex entertainment business to me. Government does not want name and shame?

So 25 infected is top already or there's yet more expected - that would be good to know.





helping others at evgenyk.nz


Rikkitic
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  #2458641 9-Apr-2020 20:21
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tdgeek:

 

Stupid article. Declared victory? Nothing of the sort. There is no complacency in NZ, IIRC, she called it a marathon. The article mentioned flatten the curve. We aren't doing that. Maybe the author needs to keep up to date. Note that level 3 is still quite restrictive.

 

 

The Daily Mail isn't known for its adherence to facts.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


Batman

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  #2458642 9-Apr-2020 20:27
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Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.
frednz
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  #2458643 9-Apr-2020 20:28
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tdgeek:

 

Stupid article. Declared victory? Nothing of the sort. There is no complacency in NZ, IIRC, she called it a marathon. The article mentioned flatten the curve. We aren't doing that. Maybe the author needs to keep up to date. Note that level 3 is still quite restrictive.

 

 

As I said earlier, I agree the headline is misleading. However, there are many comments on the article which show that lots of people in the UK would far rather be living here at present than in the UK. A lot of people also think that we have a pretty good PM who has acted decisively quite early, compared to some other countries. The article supports this viewpoint saying that:

 

New Zealand began testing for the virus as long ago as January 22, although it did not confirm a positive case until February 26. 

 

The government then began taking drastic public health measures in mid-March, even when it had relatively few cases of the disease.   

 

As early as March 14, all new arrivals into New Zealand were ordered into self-isolation, while cruise ships were banned.  

 

The country had only 32 confirmed cases on March 18, when Ardern announced that all non-residents and non-citizens were banned from entering New Zealand.   

 

Gatherings of more than 100 people have also been banned since March 19.  

 

Ardern announced a total lockdown on March 25, at which point there were 295 confirmed cases. 


ezbee
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  #2458651 9-Apr-2020 20:32
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tdgeek, 

 

      The daily mail missed an much more fitting description of where we are.

 

       One that should be close to their hearts .

 

  

 

       A quote from Winston , you know thew other one :-) 

 

       " Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning"

 

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdRH5wzCQQw

 

      Be Kind , and have a lovely quiet Easter , maybe look up some inspiring oratory from the past.

 

      We don't see much of its kind in the media today.

 

 


frednz
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  #2458652 9-Apr-2020 20:33
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Rikkitic:

 

tdgeek:

 

Stupid article. Declared victory? Nothing of the sort. There is no complacency in NZ, IIRC, she called it a marathon. The article mentioned flatten the curve. We aren't doing that. Maybe the author needs to keep up to date. Note that level 3 is still quite restrictive.

 

 

The Daily Mail isn't known for its adherence to facts.

 

 

 

 

I agree, but for the reasons I explained earlier, the article isn't entirely worthless!

 

By the way Rikkitic, can't you find a better photo of yourself than the one that goes with your posts, or is it meant to be someone else who should only appear when you post in the "Politics" forum?!!!


networkn
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  #2458680 9-Apr-2020 22:11
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Apologies if this has been posted, I only peer into this thread occasionally:

 

 

 

https://medium.com/@jurgenthoelen/belgian-dutch-study-why-in-times-of-covid-19-you-can-not-walk-run-bike-close-to-each-other-a5df19c77d08  

 

On the basis of these results the scientist advises that for walking the distance of people moving in the same direction in 1 line should be at least 4–5 meter,for running and slow biking it should be 10 meters and for hard biking at least 20 meters.

 

 

 

 


Batman

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  #2458686 9-Apr-2020 22:22
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networkn:

 

Apologies if this has been posted, I only peer into this thread occasionally:

 

 

 

https://medium.com/@jurgenthoelen/belgian-dutch-study-why-in-times-of-covid-19-you-can-not-walk-run-bike-close-to-each-other-a5df19c77d08  

 

On the basis of these results the scientist advises that for walking the distance of people moving in the same direction in 1 line should be at least 4–5 meter,for running and slow biking it should be 10 meters and for hard biking at least 20 meters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

no it hasn't been posted but i am aware of the page :)


Rikkitic
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  #2458691 9-Apr-2020 22:42
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frednz:

 

By the way Rikkitic, can't you find a better photo of yourself than the one that goes with your posts, or is it meant to be someone else who should only appear when you post in the "Politics" forum?!!!

 

 

The  avatar goes on the day Trump does. For me it can't happen soon enough.

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


bmt

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  #2458697 9-Apr-2020 23:09
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dejadeadnz:

 

bmt:

 

Oh ok, so you know what advice the government is receiving on the issue of mandatory quarantine for arrivals? And you are then able to weigh up what those non-public experts are saying vs the "experts" in the media? Or you're just clutching straws and assuming the government is making the decision based on ideology rather than facts and advice presented to them..

 

 

I've got a quite apparent record on here of being quite balanced in my assessment of the government's response. Against the background of essentially all reputable experts (I am referring to actual medical experts like a former Chief Science Advisor for the government and other medical experts) calling for the action that the government has finally decided to take in publicly accessible forums holding the government's response to account (e.g. the parliamentary select committee) for at least 10+ days before the government responded, I drew the quite reasonable inference that the refusal to follow this course is not entirely reasonable.

 

But hey keep your potshots going.

 

 

 

 

Gluckman and Skeggs and the other experts you want to reference are not at the table with all the information. They are scientists with a largely scientific view. I'm sure there are plenty of experts in the government circle saying mandatory quarantine 10 days ago, and then there are experts in other fields like Customs and Police saying we can't possibly support mandatory quarantine when thousands of people are still coming in.


DarthKermit
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  #2458704 10-Apr-2020 00:21
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@freitasm

 

Is this the fastest thread ever to get to 500 pages?


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