Electric Vehicle: Will you buy one

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › Electric Vehicle: Will you buy one - if not why not?

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#1774503 2-May-2017 19:01

frednz:

I'm sure that many EV owners really do think they are helping to reduce carbon emissions and almost feel guilty when they have to drive a petrol engine vehicle!

There hasn't been much emphasis given in this thread to the fact that the use of EVs helps to reduce carbon emissions. Don't we ALL have to play our part in trying to achieve this and start now to move over to EVs?

Buying an EV isn't the only way to achieve this. Walking and public transport, the latter of which will soon be fully electrified in Wellington, works for most of my daily travel.

So no, I don't feel guilty about using my diesel vehicle on odd occasions when an EV wouldn't have sufficient range anyway.

BlinkyBill

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#1774524 2-May-2017 19:17

I am a bit worried about global warming, but I also believe a) the case for EV as a mitigant is very far from proven, b) the basic way we live, commuting and other lifestyle choices, and c) rampant consumerism are all factors that contribute as much as the use of petrol. If not more.

cadman

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#1774542 2-May-2017 19:55

RUKI:

When others see the "problem", can I suggest a solution? How about this simple one:

Stop creating useless "jobs in the office". Let smart people who are disciplined enough, motivated enough and geared for success - let them work from home.

I've been saying (and doing) this for years. I enjoy driving but I hate traffic. People that don't need to be in the office all day every day simply shouldn't be. Not that I believe in AGW in the slightest but simply because it's a resource wasting exercise having people commuting to places to do things they can realistically do from home. Think of all the oil saved - all the man hours saved - all the stress from not sitting in traffic every day gone.

Aredwood

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#1774665 2-May-2017 21:56

frednz:

BlinkyBill: I owned a Tesla, in Sydney. It was novel, but ultimately it wasn't a very well put-together car and I got sick of the range anxiety/stress. So I sold it. My NZ-based Porsche is a much much better assembled car; and to be honest the build quality of the Tesla got to me.

So that's got nothing to do with EV or not, just the build quality.

I won't consider a Tesla again on that basis alone; maybe I'll look at Tesla again in, say, 10 years time. I haven't looked at any of the other EV's.

In the meantime, I love my Porsche sport exhaust and the noise, the stupid fat wheels, manual changing, and all that - that is a factor for me. I won't be moving to EV until I have to, when petrol becomes too scarce to run cars.

Fair enough, I suppose it's not worth keeping an EV if you aren't enjoying owning it!

But, aren't you just a little bit worried about the health of our planet if people will only switch to electric vehicles when petrol becomes too scarce to run cars?

I'm sure that many EV owners really do think they are helping to reduce carbon emissions and almost feel guilty when they have to drive a petrol engine vehicle!

There hasn't been much emphasis given in this thread to the fact that the use of EVs helps to reduce carbon emissions. Don't we ALL have to play our part in trying to achieve this and start now to move over to EVs?

Deep down, don't you feel just a little bit guilty when you continue to drive your gas-guzzling monsters when all the evidence points to global warming now being an absolute reality?

(p.s. I'm not a "Greenie" or member of the Green Party, just someone who believes that global warming is a reality!)

If you are going to worry about carbon emissions, you should be examining your whole life and see what the carbon impact of your lifestyle is. Looking at what car you drive in isolation is pointless without considering if there are other easier or less costly ways of reducing your carbon footprint. This also includes taking into consideration the embodied carbon in everything you purchase.

Example - someone who only drives a small amount each year. If their current ICE car meets their needs, then the lowest overall carbon option might be to keep the ICE car until it can no longer be kept on the road. And only then upgrade to an EV.

One of the problems is that even though there is mandatory fuel economy labelling of new cars. It is almost impossible to accurately find out the embodied carbon of a new car. So if I buy a new car on the basis that it uses less fuel than my old car. How am I supposed to calculate how long it will take me to pay back the "carbon debt" from manufacturing the new car?

old3eyes

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#1774764 3-May-2017 09:27

alasta:

frednz:

I'm sure that many EV owners really do think they are helping to reduce carbon emissions and almost feel guilty when they have to drive a petrol engine vehicle!

There hasn't been much emphasis given in this thread to the fact that the use of EVs helps to reduce carbon emissions. Don't we ALL have to play our part in trying to achieve this and start now to move over to EVs?

Buying an EV isn't the only way to achieve this. Walking and public transport, the latter of which will soon be fully electrified in Wellington, works for most of my daily travel.

So no, I don't feel guilty about using my diesel vehicle on odd occasions when an EV wouldn't have sufficient range anyway.

What public transport is going to be fully electric in Wellington, I thought the trolley buses were being scrapped??

Regards,

Old3eyes

frednz

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#1775081 3-May-2017 17:23

Aredwood:

frednz:

BlinkyBill: I owned a Tesla, in Sydney. It was novel, but ultimately it wasn't a very well put-together car and I got sick of the range anxiety/stress. So I sold it. My NZ-based Porsche is a much much better assembled car; and to be honest the build quality of the Tesla got to me.

So that's got nothing to do with EV or not, just the build quality.

I won't consider a Tesla again on that basis alone; maybe I'll look at Tesla again in, say, 10 years time. I haven't looked at any of the other EV's.

In the meantime, I love my Porsche sport exhaust and the noise, the stupid fat wheels, manual changing, and all that - that is a factor for me. I won't be moving to EV until I have to, when petrol becomes too scarce to run cars.

Fair enough, I suppose it's not worth keeping an EV if you aren't enjoying owning it!

But, aren't you just a little bit worried about the health of our planet if people will only switch to electric vehicles when petrol becomes too scarce to run cars?

I'm sure that many EV owners really do think they are helping to reduce carbon emissions and almost feel guilty when they have to drive a petrol engine vehicle!

There hasn't been much emphasis given in this thread to the fact that the use of EVs helps to reduce carbon emissions. Don't we ALL have to play our part in trying to achieve this and start now to move over to EVs?

Deep down, don't you feel just a little bit guilty when you continue to drive your gas-guzzling monsters when all the evidence points to global warming now being an absolute reality?

(p.s. I'm not a "Greenie" or member of the Green Party, just someone who believes that global warming is a reality!)

If you are going to worry about carbon emissions, you should be examining your whole life and see what the carbon impact of your lifestyle is. Looking at what car you drive in isolation is pointless without considering if there are other easier or less costly ways of reducing your carbon footprint. This also includes taking into consideration the embodied carbon in everything you purchase.

Yes, and, for example, large cruise ships can have a huge effect on the environment as discussed here.

And in this article it's claimed that ..."just 16 of the world’s largest ships can produce as much lung-clogging sulphur pollution as all the world’s cars." And NZ's fleet of huge trucks and buses etc doesn't help much either, so I can understand why the user of one small ICE car thinks that the race against global warming has already been lost and that its effects are irreversible!

shk292

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#1775088 3-May-2017 17:39

I could envisage buying one as a third vehicle when my kids are old enough to drive. We currently have an MPV and a sports car, and there are no affordable EVs that fill these niches just yet.

I'm far from convinced about PHEVs - just too much complexity for little return in terms of fuel economy.

I recently changed from a SUV averaging around 10ltr/100k to a sports car that averages around 7, so I feel I'm doing my bit for carbon footprint ;)

Not a great believer in the alarmist AGW predictions

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alasta

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#1775115 3-May-2017 19:11

old3eyes:

alasta:

Buying an EV isn't the only way to achieve this. Walking and public transport, the latter of which will soon be fully electrified in Wellington, works for most of my daily travel.

So no, I don't feel guilty about using my diesel vehicle on odd occasions when an EV wouldn't have sufficient range anyway.

What public transport is going to be fully electric in Wellington, I thought the trolley buses were being scrapped??

Both the trolley and diesel buses are going to be replaced with battery equipped electric buses over the coming years. Apparently the technology has advanced enough to keep them running all day.

RUKI

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#1775133 3-May-2017 19:58

One of the personal advantages of EV is "no fumes".

But that advantage disappears when you join the traffic.

Perhaps not everyone aware that Toyota Hybrid cars are using EV mode (automatically) when you start, take off or reversing (up to few hundred meters (up to 2kms according to specs).

So, in your garage (or in the underground garage in the CBD), around your house, in your driveway you are driving hybrid in EV mode - personal "no-fumes" advantage.

Linuxluver

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#1775230 3-May-2017 22:27

BlinkyBill: I am a bit worried about global warming, but I also believe a) the case for EV as a mitigant is very far from proven, b) the basic way we live, commuting and other lifestyle choices, and c) rampant consumerism are all factors that contribute as much as the use of petrol. If not more.

The Chinese government appears to disagree with you, BlinkyBill. They are moving rapidly to electric vehicles to reduce air pollution and to address CO2 emissions. Climate change is already seriously affecting China and they are now moving more rapidly than any other country to do something about it.....and EVs are one of the core policy elements.

As for general consumerism.....I agree. Though consuming a lot less would mean millions of people out of work...and we return to a discussion about some kind of guaranteed annual income.

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BlinkyBill

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#1775269 4-May-2017 06:17

Linuxluver:
BlinkyBill: I am a bit worried about global warming, but I also believe a) the case for EV as a mitigant is very far from proven, b) the basic way we live, commuting and other lifestyle choices, and c) rampant consumerism are all factors that contribute as much as the use of petrol. If not more.

The Chinese government appears to disagree with you, BlinkyBill. They are moving rapidly to electric vehicles to reduce air pollution and to address CO2 emissions. Climate change is already seriously affecting China and they are now moving more rapidly than any other country to do something about it.....and EVs are one of the core policy elements.

As for general consumerism.....I agree. Though consuming a lot less would mean millions of people out of work...and we return to a discussion about some kind of guaranteed annual income.

i don't think they give a s*** about CO2, but they do worry about air pollution, which can be horrendous. The issue in China comes from factories and fires, they closed the factories down during the Beijing Olympics.

But I'm glad the Chinese are taking millions of petrol cars off the road, that means more petrol for me!

old3eyes

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#1775454 4-May-2017 11:33

RUKI:

One of the personal advantages of EV is "no fumes".

But that advantage disappears when you join the traffic.

Perhaps not everyone aware that Toyota Hybrid cars are using EV mode (automatically) when you start, take off or reversing (up to few hundred meters (up to 2kms according to specs).

So, in your garage (or in the underground garage in the CBD), around your house, in your driveway you are driving hybrid in EV mode - personal "no-fumes" advantage.

Unfortunately in NZ Toyota doesn't sell new PHEV only Signature imports. These will do about 35Km in pure EV mode before the ICE kicks in but at about $36 grand they are rather expensive.

I think once EVs are really being pushed in China then we will see some serious penetration of EVs

Regards,

Old3eyes

RUKI

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#1775809 4-May-2017 18:32

old3eyes:

Unfortunately in NZ Toyota doesn't sell new PHEV only Signature imports. These will do about 35Km in pure EV mode before the ICE kicks in but at about $36 grand they are rather expensive.

I think once EVs are really being pushed in China then we will see some serious penetration of EVs

Chinese EV I would never consider, even as a gift :-)

As for Toyota - Aqua (AKA Prius C) is the most popular 4-door hybrid in Japan. It is sold brand new in NZ and the price for the second hand low mileage is smaller than Nissan Leaf. 4.1l/100 km actual consumption (specs say 3.6) makes it competitive / comparable with EV in terms of charging at fast chargers (50C/min + 50C/kWH).

Prius C (Aqua) is assembled in Japan (e.g. Corolla is assembled in Australia and that is what I would never trust).

Range - actual ~700 kms on 28L (tank is 36) beats any current or future EV. Brand new - 28K, second hand - $12-$20K (depends). Compared with smaller and less practical BMWi3 (second hand $50K) - it is a winner and try to convince me otherwise.

In terms of ROI Prius C is better investment than Leaf. In terms of lifespan - NHW-10 Prius (1997-1999) are still on NZ roads. That is 20 year old hybrids. I would love to see 20 year old Leafs driving around.

frednz

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#1775833 4-May-2017 19:29

RUKI:

old3eyes:

Unfortunately in NZ Toyota doesn't sell new PHEV only Signature imports. These will do about 35Km in pure EV mode before the ICE kicks in but at about $36 grand they are rather expensive.

I think once EVs are really being pushed in China then we will see some serious penetration of EVs

Chinese EV I would never consider, even as a gift :-)

As for Toyota - Aqua (AKA Prius C) is the most popular 4-door hybrid in Japan. It is sold brand new in NZ and the price for the second hand low mileage is smaller than Nissan Leaf. 4.1l/100 km actual consumption (specs say 3.6) makes it competitive / comparable with EV in terms of charging at fast chargers (50C/min + 50C/kWH).

Prius C (Aqua) is assembled in Japan (e.g. Corolla is assembled in Australia and that is what I would never trust).

Range - actual ~700 kms on 28L (tank is 36) beats any current or future EV. Brand new - 28K, second hand - $12-$20K (depends). Compared with smaller and less practical BMWi3 (second hand $50K) - it is a winner and try to convince me otherwise.

In terms of ROI Prius C is better investment than Leaf. In terms of lifespan - NHW-10 Prius (1997-1999) are still on NZ roads. That is 20 year old hybrids. I would love to see 20 year old Leafs driving around.

When talking about hybrids, I guess the BMW i3 with range extender can be regarded as a hybrid, but its pure electric range (old model) is about 120km and the range extender charges the battery while driving to give an extra 120-130km. The new i3 model gives a pure electric range of about 200km and the range extender can give an extra 130km. The range extender is powered by a small motor cycle type petrol engine that takes only 9 litres of petrol.

So, what pure electric range do the Prius vehicles have that you describe above? And remember that the BMW i3 can also be bought as a pure electric EV (without a range extender).

So compared with the vehicles you describe, I think I still prefer the i3 simply because its pure electric range of 120km - 200km is far superior and you also have the option of a range extender backup to give you that extra 130km of range.

RUKI

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#1776056 5-May-2017 09:38

frednz:

.... I think I still prefer the i3 simply because its pure electric range of 120km - 200km is far superior and you also have the option of a range extender backup to give you that extra 130km of range.

It is personal choice. Did not get how "claimed" 200km is superior vs 700km real :-) and how spending 50+ K NZD vs 20K is smarter for the smaller car which BMWi3 is.

I've played a lot of battery operated toys made in Japan when I was a kid, hence as a grown-up I am not interested in toys but only in practical things :-)

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