Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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#2021666 24-May-2018 10:29

MikeB4:

The environmental impact of Hydro Dams goes greater than just the land used for the storage. The down stream impacts are significant to humans, flora and fauna.

We need power. Environmental impact can be managed if we want to. Ive seen US projects where they manage salmon etc. Or, create an artificial river system that just takes up acreage and is planted with flora, and that flows into natural systems downstream of the last turbines.

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#2021670 24-May-2018 10:34

tdgeek:

MikeAqua:

tdgeek:

Thanks. I wasnt aware we had plenty of hydro capability.

We don't. We have sufficient for average to good years. In a bad year it's not so great. But no-one is incentivised to build clean generation that is surplus in most years - because most of the time it will just lower the price of electricity. Good for consumers, but bad for generators.

The risk of failure at the resource consent stage doesn't help either.

Capability, I meant for adding new stations, my bad. Generation needs to be 100% Govt owned as it once was. Profit, balance sheets, share prices dont belong in what is these days a necessity of life. Power prices need to reflect cost plus future maintenance = cheap. The invoicing companies need to make money from a daily charge and added value, and not on usage, its the wrong focus

Governments role is one of enablement and facilitation, it is not ownership of the hardware and building of plants. Governments are just not good at running businesses.

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#2021672 24-May-2018 10:37

tdgeek:
MikeAqua:

tdgeek:

Thanks. I wasnt aware we had plenty of hydro capability.

We don't. We have sufficient for average to good years. In a bad year it's not so great. But no-one is incentivised to build clean generation that is surplus in most years - because most of the time it will just lower the price of electricity. Good for consumers, but bad for generators.

The risk of failure at the resource consent stage doesn't help either.

Capability, I meant for adding new stations, my bad. Generation needs to be 100% Govt owned as it once was. Profit, balance sheets, share prices dont belong in what is these days a necessity of life. Power prices need to reflect cost plus future maintenance = cheap. The invoicing companies need to make money from a daily charge and added value, and not on usage, its the wrong focus

Depends what u want the government to waste your money on. It's well proven that the government is not the most efficient provider for these kinds of products.

MikeB4

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#2021675 24-May-2018 10:42

tdgeek:

MikeB4:

The environmental impact of Hydro Dams goes greater than just the land used for the storage. The down stream impacts are significant to humans, flora and fauna.

We need power. Environmental impact can be managed if we want to. Ive seen US projects where they manage salmon etc. Or, create an artificial river system that just takes up acreage and is planted with flora, and that flows into natural systems downstream of the last turbines.

There are affects on aquifers, plant and animal life. Dams by the fact that they hold back water reduce river flows that results in outbreaks of toxic algae and other river health issues. The aquifers have reduced flow into them and as a result their levels change and this has serious consequences. These impacts can be felt many kilometers away from the dam. There are also impacts on the viability of arable land downstream and upstream of dams. It can cause considerable instability of the surrounding land both upstream and down stream by altering natural drainage and ground water levels.

networkn

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#2021687 24-May-2018 11:06

I am disappointed by this Governments supposedly "green" focus. We looked at Solar a year ago. With panels only it would have taken us 20 years to get a pay back optimistically, and with batteries, probably closer to 30. Solar isn't going to drop much in price, the materials and manufacturing process to convert that type of energy is expensive and will stay this way. The only way it gets cheaper is with subsidies or other incentives. Labour and the Greens LAMBASTED National about the lack of subsidies and incentivising and yet I see nothing really happening by them either. I don't see anything being done about EV incentives either.

I did hear on the radio about a lines company or power company that was catering to low income families by signing them up for 10 years at heavily discounted rates, and supplying 2 solar panels. You could get out of your contract with the purchase of at least 2 more panels, which seemed positive, but was actually worked on by the prior Government.

rjt123

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#2021690 24-May-2018 11:13

MikeB4:
There are affects on aquifers, plant and animal life. Dams by the fact that they hold back water reduce river flows that results in outbreaks of toxic algae and other river health issues. The aquifers have reduced flow into them and as a result their levels change and this has serious consequences. These impacts can be felt many kilometers away from the dam. There are also impacts on the viability of arable land downstream and upstream of dams. It can cause considerable instability of the surrounding land both upstream and down stream by altering natural drainage and ground water levels.

Fortunately most of those effects can be mitigated. From the two I know of in my area the toxic algae is from farm run-off. Fish have been allowed for with a special waterway so they can go up and down the dam. The dam allows for restriction and levelling of water flows to reduce impact from heavy rains, except in extreme cases which would have been catastrophic anyways. They can be located in remote valleys utilizing otherwise wasted land.

Furthermore, because we are human, we like a 'lifestyle' that involves more than just hunting/gathering (what I mean is relaxation and having fun), and dams provide just that, excellent fun.

Edit: the algae is downstream from the dam, and the river runs at normal flow because the dam is no longer used for power generation.

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#2021693 24-May-2018 11:19

After all the nastiness in Parliament it's good to see a happier story...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/104166779/pregnant-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-gets-a-helping-hand-from-dad

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MikeB4

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#2021701 24-May-2018 11:33

rjt123:
MikeB4:

There are affects on aquifers, plant and animal life. Dams by the fact that they hold back water reduce river flows that results in outbreaks of toxic algae and other river health issues. The aquifers have reduced flow into them and as a result their levels change and this has serious consequences. These impacts can be felt many kilometers away from the dam. There are also impacts on the viability of arable land downstream and upstream of dams. It can cause considerable instability of the surrounding land both upstream and down stream by altering natural drainage and ground water levels.

Fortunately most of those effects can be mitigated. From the two I know of in my area the toxic algae is from farm run-off. Fish have been allowed for with a special waterway so they can go up and down the dam. The dam allows for restriction and levelling of water flows to reduce impact from heavy rains, except in extreme cases which would have been catastrophic anyways. They can be located in remote valleys utilizing otherwise wasted land.

Furthermore, because we are human, we like a 'lifestyle' that involves more than just hunting/gathering (what I mean is relaxation and having fun), and dams provide just that, excellent fun.

Edit: the algae is downstream from the dam, and the river runs at normal flow because the dam is no longer used for power generation.

Yes the root cause of toxic algae is nutrients entering the water, the catalyst is slow river flow rates that prevents the flushing of the riverbed. Remote Valleys are not wasted land they serve important roles in the ecosystem. We don't need artificial lakes for fun we have more than enough natural lakes for that and we ate surrounded by a reasonable large chuck of water.

MikeB4

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#2021716 24-May-2018 11:40

networkn:

I am disappointed by this Governments supposedly "green" focus. We looked at Solar a year ago. With panels only it would have taken us 20 years to get a pay back optimistically, and with batteries, probably closer to 30. Solar isn't going to drop much in price, the materials and manufacturing process to convert that type of energy is expensive and will stay this way. The only way it gets cheaper is with subsidies or other incentives. Labour and the Greens LAMBASTED National about the lack of subsidies and incentivising and yet I see nothing really happening by them either. I don't see anything being done about EV incentives either.

I did hear on the radio about a lines company or power company that was catering to low income families by signing them up for 10 years at heavily discounted rates, and supplying 2 solar panels. You could get out of your contract with the purchase of at least 2 more panels, which seemed positive, but was actually worked on by the prior Government.

Solar is just one option and a marginal option. I believe that ground coupled heat exchanges hold better promise to provide sustainable renewable heating and reduce power consumption. They could be made mandatory in all new subdivision both residential and commercial.

networkn

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#2021717 24-May-2018 11:41

MikeB4:

networkn:

I am disappointed by this Governments supposedly "green" focus. We looked at Solar a year ago. With panels only it would have taken us 20 years to get a pay back optimistically, and with batteries, probably closer to 30. Solar isn't going to drop much in price, the materials and manufacturing process to convert that type of energy is expensive and will stay this way. The only way it gets cheaper is with subsidies or other incentives. Labour and the Greens LAMBASTED National about the lack of subsidies and incentivising and yet I see nothing really happening by them either. I don't see anything being done about EV incentives either.

I did hear on the radio about a lines company or power company that was catering to low income families by signing them up for 10 years at heavily discounted rates, and supplying 2 solar panels. You could get out of your contract with the purchase of at least 2 more panels, which seemed positive, but was actually worked on by the prior Government.

Solar is just one option and a marginal option. I believe that ground coupled heat exchanges hold better promise to provide sustainable renewable heating and reduce power consumption.

How do you fit this to existing homes? The cost would be massive if it's even possible.

MikeB4

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#2021719 24-May-2018 11:43

amiga500:

After all the nastiness in Parliament it's good to see a happier story...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/104166779/pregnant-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-gets-a-helping-hand-from-dad

That is excellent.

MikeB4

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#2021731 24-May-2018 11:46

networkn:

MikeB4:

networkn:

I am disappointed by this Governments supposedly "green" focus. We looked at Solar a year ago. With panels only it would have taken us 20 years to get a pay back optimistically, and with batteries, probably closer to 30. Solar isn't going to drop much in price, the materials and manufacturing process to convert that type of energy is expensive and will stay this way. The only way it gets cheaper is with subsidies or other incentives. Labour and the Greens LAMBASTED National about the lack of subsidies and incentivising and yet I see nothing really happening by them either. I don't see anything being done about EV incentives either.

I did hear on the radio about a lines company or power company that was catering to low income families by signing them up for 10 years at heavily discounted rates, and supplying 2 solar panels. You could get out of your contract with the purchase of at least 2 more panels, which seemed positive, but was actually worked on by the prior Government.

Solar is just one option and a marginal option. I believe that ground coupled heat exchanges hold better promise to provide sustainable renewable heating and reduce power consumption.

How do you fit this to existing homes? The cost would be massive if it's even possible.

Existing home on larger properties could achieve it but as I said They could be made mandatory in all new subdivision both residential and commercial where it is far easier to do.

GV27

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#2021736 24-May-2018 11:55

MikeB4:

Existing home on larger properties could achieve it but as I said They could be made mandatory in all new subdivision both residential and commercial where it is far easier to do.

Congrats, you've just added another $50K to Kiwibuild properties. Mind you the price isn't that firm so who cares, right?

Solar doesn't work with apartments, which is what we need to be building.

networkn

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#2021738 24-May-2018 11:57

GV27:

MikeB4:

Existing home on larger properties could achieve it but as I said They could be made mandatory in all new subdivision both residential and commercial where it is far easier to do.

Congrats, you've just added another $50K to Kiwibuild properties. Mind you the price isn't that firm so who cares, right?

Solar doesn't work with apartments, which is what we need to be building.

Both good and reasonable points.

MikeB4

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#2021752 24-May-2018 12:11

GV27:

MikeB4:

Existing home on larger properties could achieve it but as I said They could be made mandatory in all new subdivision both residential and commercial where it is far easier to do.

Congrats, you've just added another $50K to Kiwibuild properties. Mind you the price isn't that firm so who cares, right?

Solar doesn't work with apartments, which is what we need to be building.

I haven't added anything.

It is clear though that fixing the mess we are in is not going to be cheap. With any of these things payback is over time, not next week. Putting anything in new builds is always cheaper that retro fitting.

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