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# 214612 20-May-2017 16:36
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People who know me know I often argue for progressive ideas. Some no doubt think I am radical. I hate censorship, I detest discrimination and I am against intolerance. So what to think of this story: Father banned from watching daughter's netball game?

 

I am not in favour of any religion. I personally think it is all superstitious nonsense. But I also recognise that faith can be an important part of people’s lives and I strongly believe that different cultural values should be respected. Yet this really bothers me. According to a spokesperson, the girls, who have been brought up in Muslim tradition, would be made uncomfortable and not want to participate if they knew men were watching. Yet this means that a father who wants to support his daughter cannot attend the game.

 

I have to say, with some reluctance, that this really makes me feel like telling the Muslim community that it is time to grow up and get over themselves. Surely they can find modern ways to observe their religious beliefs? The jews have done it. So have the christians. Quit subjecting women and girls to these ridiculous archaic restrictions and join the modern world. Just because you believe in a particular vision of god does not mean you have to live in the 7th century forever.

 

 

 

[Mod edit (MF): replaced "this" (which means nothing) with the long form "Father banned from watching daughter's netball game"]





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


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  # 1785225 20-May-2017 17:02
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I would think the daughter would have signed up for the Netball knowing about this restriction.  Therefore, it is a non-event for me.

 

Within reason, I fully support private instructions being able to create their own rules, including female-only gyms and men-only (old-boys style) clubs.





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  # 1785230 20-May-2017 17:13
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I refuse to accept religion as a justification for anything at all until someone actually provides me with concrete evidence that a deity exists.

 

The sooner society moves to that view, the better IMV.






 
 
 
 


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  # 1785232 20-May-2017 17:22
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if you want general property rights, then you should really be ok with people setting up sports tournaments according to rules they desire.

 

If those rules mean no men can watch - then that's up to them.  This isn't a 'normal' tournament meant for general people, its not organised by a school or other government funded organisation. 

 

It's a private tournament set up specifically for people who would like their girsl to play netball without men watching them.  From that perspective its no different from having women's only gyms or even women's only bathrooms.


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  # 1785275 20-May-2017 17:47
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I agree with the op.

 

I grew up in a small country where religion dictated the school I attended, the friends I could have and the sports I played.

 

Exclusion of anybody based upon a religious belief isn't a good thing imo.


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  # 1785276 20-May-2017 17:47
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S

 

Rikkitic:

 

People who know me know I often argue for progressive ideas. Some no doubt think I am radical. I hate censorship, I detest discrimination and I am against intolerance. So what to think of this story: Father banned from watching daughter's netball game?

 

I am not in favour of any religion. I personally think it is all superstitious nonsense. But I also recognise that faith can be an important part of people’s lives and I strongly believe that different cultural values should be respected. Yet this really bothers me. According to a spokesperson, the girls, who have been brought up in Muslim tradition, would be made uncomfortable and not want to participate if they knew men were watching. Yet this means that a father who wants to support his daughter cannot attend the game.

 

I have to say, with some reluctance, that this really makes me feel like telling the Muslim community that it is time to grow up and get over themselves. Surely they can find modern ways to observe their religious beliefs? The jews have done it. So have the christians. Quit subjecting women and girls to these ridiculous archaic restrictions and join the modern world. Just because you believe in a particular vision of god does not mean you have to live in the 7th century forever.

 

 

 

[Mod edit (MF): replaced "this" (which means nothing) with the long form "Father banned from watching daughter's netball game"]

 

 

How do you reconcile your detest of intolerance with your respect of people rights to be followers of intolerant faiths ?

 

 

 

Personally, I think islam needs to either be reformed to stop treating women like chattels and stoning homosexuals to death, or stamped out completely. Probably the former is more likely. 




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  # 1785278 20-May-2017 17:50
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NonprayingMantis:

 

if you want general property rights, then you should really be ok with people setting up sports tournaments according to rules they desire.

 

If those rules mean no men can watch - then that's up to them.  This isn't a 'normal' tournament meant for general people, its not organised by a school or other government funded organisation. 

 

It's a private tournament set up specifically for people who would like their girsl to play netball without men watching them.  From that perspective its no different from having women's only gyms or even women's only bathrooms.

 

 

This is certainly a valid point and there is a lot to be said for it. But surely they could let the girls' own fathers attend. It might also be more palatable if it was just a private social club, but the religious connection complicates things. I'm in two minds about it but it still bothers me.

 

 





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  # 1785279 20-May-2017 17:51
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surfisup1000:

 

 

 

How do you reconcile your detest of intolerance with your respect of people rights to be followers of intolerant faiths ?

 

 

 

Personally, I think islam needs to either be reformed to stop treating women like chattels and stoning homosexuals to death, or stamped out completely. Probably the former is more likely. 

 

 

 

 

I believe it's okay to be intolerant of intolerance.


 
 
 
 




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  # 1785282 20-May-2017 18:03
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surfisup1000:

 

How do you reconcile your detest of intolerance with your respect of people rights to be followers of intolerant faiths ?

 

 

 

 

Sometimes it is hard to know where to draw the line, and any place you choose is always going to be somewhat arbitrary. There is a saying that your freedom to swing your fist ends at my face. I think it has to be something like that. Respect the things you can, even if you don't agree with them, but draw the line at the other things.

 

 





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  # 1785291 20-May-2017 18:56
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It's just another example of the Islamic belief system invading western society, like the Muslim women only swimming sessions in Auckland.  Either fight it or accept it, it's not going away voluntarily


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  # 1785292 20-May-2017 19:02
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I may hold a unpopular belief here, but personally I am of the opinion that we don't want other religions/cultures that are opposed to our culture/belief's as a country becoming normal place in NZ.

 

I don't mind others having their own belief's, but if you come to NZ you should integrate with our culture, our way of doing things rather than holding onto your ideals and creating a world of them to live in.

 

So many cities have huge problems with cultural wars and are divided from within because of people refusing to integrate and instead forming their own city that conforms within a city.

 

 

 

Too many people forget, it is a privilege to come here, not a right. I wouldn't go to their country and demand my belief's are followed, I would try and accept theirs or at least integrate with their way of doing things.


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  # 1785294 20-May-2017 19:09
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Rikkitic:

 

NonprayingMantis:

 

if you want general property rights, then you should really be ok with people setting up sports tournaments according to rules they desire.

 

If those rules mean no men can watch - then that's up to them.  This isn't a 'normal' tournament meant for general people, its not organised by a school or other government funded organisation. 

 

It's a private tournament set up specifically for people who would like their girsl to play netball without men watching them.  From that perspective its no different from having women's only gyms or even women's only bathrooms.

 

 

This is certainly a valid point and there is a lot to be said for it. But surely they could let the girls' own fathers attend. It might also be more palatable if it was just a private social club, but the religious connection complicates things. I'm in two minds about it but it still bothers me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

the father, presumably, is also a muslim.

 

Maybe this event will help a little to open his eyes to how absurd Islamic rules really are.  then he can encourage his daughters to compete in anetball tournament that is open to allcomers - muslim or otherwise.

 

 

 

I think the rule is silly, but I also think people should have the freedom to make rules like this.


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  # 1785312 20-May-2017 19:40
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shk292:

 

It's just another example of the Islamic belief system invading western society, like the Muslim women only swimming sessions in Auckland.  Either fight it or accept it, it's not going away voluntarily

 

 

I just want to slightly correct this, they are women only swim sessions. ( you dont have to be muslim )

 

I personally am 100% against this. This is public property and if you want to swim without men hire the venue after hours or get a private pool, there is a woman's only gym not far from there that has an indoor private pool they could use.

 

Men are not allowed to have men only places, there used to be men only gym's / clubs etc but they have had to allow women.

 

Women on the other hand are allowed women only gyms / clubs etc so they have a "safe and supportive environment"

 

This whole thing is pushing NZ back 125 - 150 years. Kate Shepherd will be rolling in her grave.

 

 

 

As for the netball, it is on private land, Zayed College is a state integrated secondary school. The state does not own the land or buildings so this is a private function. The father knew damned well what their beliefs and cultural practices are but I am glad he has complained, hopefully others will complain and push for change in their community.

 

John

 

 





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  # 1785315 20-May-2017 20:05
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Father banned from watching daughter's netball game

First up the headline is sensationist. No one was banned.

Men not allowed at women's event would be more accurate.

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  # 1785318 20-May-2017 20:10
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gzt:
Father banned from watching daughter's netball game

First up the headline is sensationist. No one was banned.

Men not allowed at women's event would be more accurate.


How is that not a ban?





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  # 1785328 20-May-2017 21:07
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Pretty sure there'd be uproar if it was no women allowed, these days. Noone made his girls participate, though, so don't see the big deal. Play in a normal tournament and get to watch. 


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