GCSB Protest March

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#866304 26-Jul-2013 07:41

P1n3apqlExpr3ss: I've never actually seen this answered one way or the other and I've followed it on the news and Campbell Live's features. Will the bill result in warrantless or warranted search/surveillance?

"Warranted" -- quotes intended. The PM may issue the warrants on his or her own authority, in secret, without having to explain why in public.

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MasterMoose

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#866317 26-Jul-2013 08:32

"I have noting to hide"

All my underwear is clean, but I that doesn't mean I want anyone looking through my drawers

ajobbins

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#866470 26-Jul-2013 11:33

John Key's office already tried to get access to the private phone records of Journalist Andrea Vance. There is no legal basis for the PM to access this information, not to mention it compromise the journalist ability to protect sources, and freedom of the press.

Under the new law, John Key could have personally issued a warrant to collect this information.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1307/S00385/pms-office-menacingly-asks-for-journalists-phone-records.htm

You just can't trust John Key. His spy law isn't even in effect yet and he's already trying to spy on people.

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old3eyes

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#866562 26-Jul-2013 12:55

ajobbins: John Key's office already tried to get access to the private phone records of Journalist Andrea Vance. There is no legal basis for the PM to access this information, not to mention it compromise the journalist ability to protect sources, and freedom of the press.

Under the new law, John Key could have personally issued a warrant to collect this information.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1307/S00385/pms-office-menacingly-asks-for-journalists-phone-records.htm

You just can't trust John Key. His spy law isn't even in effect yet and he's already trying to spy on people.

I wouldn't trust any politician from the left or right over this. They're all self serving..

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#866566 26-Jul-2013 13:02

“The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is
to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a
thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way the
people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past
the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.” ~AH

Coming to an Island near you.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/27/texas-teen-makes-violent-joke-during-video-game-is-jailed-for-months/

MattEast

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#866571 26-Jul-2013 13:16

To all the people who are happy with this bill and have nothing to hide;

Would you be happy for the police to swing by at the drop of a hat and have a look through your house, check the draws, make sure the car is warranted etc etc. This bill essentially gives them that right, big difference is you just don't see it (out of sight out of mind). The current law as it stands allows police or similar agencies the power to go before a judge, provide some evidence of wrongdoing...then apply for a warrant. This system has worked well, I don't see what has suddenly changed to necessitate this change? Aside from the PM being embarrassed by a certain gentleman who happens to live in Coatesville.
It gives the GCSB far too much power, and invariably too much power leads to people misusing it....

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#866585 26-Jul-2013 13:33

MattEast:
Would you be happy for the police to swing by at the drop of a hat and have a look through your house, check the draws, make sure the car is warranted etc etc.

Would not be too bad actually. Im a law abiding citizen.

If the cops did that they would rid the neighborhood of all the troublesome characters.

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SaltyNZ

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#866600 26-Jul-2013 14:02

Klipspringer:
MattEast:
Would you be happy for the police to swing by at the drop of a hat and have a look through your house, check the draws, make sure the car is warranted etc etc.

Would not be too bad actually. Im a law abiding citizen.

If the cops did that they would rid the neighborhood of all the troublesome characters.

I'm sure you're right. You're absolutely not going to be in breach of a single law or regulation, knowingly or otherwise. Should be pretty straightforward to double check them all, given that a quick check shows only a few dozen acts and three hundred or so sets of regulations passed in 2013 so far. 2012 only adds another 124 acts and 425 sets of regulations - kids stuff to keep track of really.

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Klipspringer

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#866627 26-Jul-2013 14:17

SaltyNZ:
Klipspringer:
MattEast:
Would you be happy for the police to swing by at the drop of a hat and have a look through your house, check the draws, make sure the car is warranted etc etc.

Would not be too bad actually. Im a law abiding citizen.

If the cops did that they would rid the neighborhood of all the troublesome characters.

I'm sure you're right. You're absolutely not going to be in breach of a single law or regulation, knowingly or otherwise. Should be pretty straightforward to double check them all, given that a quick check shows only a few dozen acts and three hundred or so sets of regulations passed in 2013 so far. 2012 only adds another 124 acts and 425 sets of regulations - kids stuff to keep track of really.

Yea I may get put down for something ....
But there are bigger fish to fry in our parts of the woods. I'm sure the police realise that too.

Who will the law change affect more? Me or the dodgy characters down the road...

I would love to see a few cop raids on some of the houses here on the Kapiti Coast.

minimoke

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#866653 26-Jul-2013 14:47

It may be worth considering this issue in the light of a gradual erosion of our more basic rights. A couple of more recent examples of how we are losing ground under National are
- Skynet Law which essentially introduces the concept of "Guilty" unless the accused can prove innocence
- Environment Canterbury which essentially is taxation without representation.

regius

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#866735 26-Jul-2013 17:32

The movie "The Lives of Others" is a sobering reminder of what could happen some time in the future in New Zealand unless the GCSB Bill is modified by adding clearly defined, water-tight clauses protecting all NZ citizens' private lives from others.
Just because we have a benign Goverment now, we cannot guarantee that will be so in the future.

DonGould

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#866851 26-Jul-2013 21:18

Klipspringer: But there are bigger fish to fry in our parts of the woods. I'm sure the police realise that too.

Personally I think that's very foolish thinking, please let me explain why.

My guess is that you're easy to deal with and have some money for a half decent lawyer.

As Salty pointed out above, there's a truck load of new laws every year. Way to many for you to check off that you're doing the right thing, but easy job for a bit of computer software to be just checking your communications against a set of rules based on laws.

Sure, such software doesn't currently exist for New Zealand laws, as far as I know. But what's possible if we just collect your data for now and then run it though the software when it's ready?

So in 10 years time, when you have made minor infringements, the police just get your name on a list of folk to pick up and charge with your offences.

You call your lawyer, he runs though the list and helps you to plead out to a reasonable fine.

You pay the laywer for 5 hours work, and you pay your $3k fine, all done for $5k.

From the Police point of view, you're great to deal with. You don't smell, you don't throw punches at them when they come to pick you up, you don't put up to much fight and you pay your bill.

Klipspringer: Who will the law change affect more? Me or the dodgy characters down the road...

Seems to me like it could effect all of you equally.

Klipspringer: I would love to see a few cop raids on some of the houses here on the Kapiti Coast.

I'd think a few folk would like to just see a few less people die outside bars in that part of the country.

Seems to me that a change to drinking laws and better policing in the bars would be a far better use of tax dollars.

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networkn

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#866859 26-Jul-2013 21:56

Seems to me that a change to drinking laws and better policing in the bars would be a far better use of tax dollars.

My God are you INSANE!? This is how people react over a modification to an existing bill, imagine the screaming from every rooftop if you reduced how much people could DRINK or when, woe is ME, someone wants to impinge my right to DRINK!!

People in NZ have an overdeveloped sense of entitlement, nothing can get done because everyone wants to have their say even at the expense of everyone and everything else.

No wonder it takes $4B to build a stupid road and takes 10 years.

There is a lot less red tape (That everyone complains so bitterly about) in countries where citizens aren't allowed an opinion!

freitasm

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#866868 26-Jul-2013 22:25

networkn: There is a lot less red tape (That everyone complains so bitterly about) in countries where citizens aren't allowed an opinion!

Sure. There are also a lot more people being sent to gulags or simply "disappear" in those countries too.

So you rather have less freedom if you could have less red tape?

freitasm

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#866870 26-Jul-2013 22:30

I am really, really sad to see some people in this thread arguing that police should have rights to enter property for warrantless searches, and people advocating reducing freedoms in exchange of expedite government actions.

It seems some of you fail to realise these are just a few of the arbitrary powers exercised by authoritarian governments to restrict citizen participation, reduce opposition and impose terror.

I'd say from your descriptions some would be comfortable living in the old Soviet Republic or other countries with no rule of law.

Sad to see human beings still thinking like this.

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