Anybody believe this guy - Ashley Madison leak

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#1372965 24-Aug-2015 11:56

JWR:
Paul1977:
Geektastic:
Paul1977:
freitasm: Why are you folks debating immorality when the fact is a group decided that it was upon them to break into a company, steal data and distribute that?

What the data represents is irrelevant at this point.

Some want to make this a religious discussion by dragging the morality bit up and down. This is the wrong thing to discuss on Geekzone.

I don't know that I agree. What if it was a child pornography site?

In that instance, while I wouldn't agree with the info being made public, I would have no issue with someone hacking the site and providing the info to the police.

But what if the police then said they can't act on it as the info was obtained illegally? Is releasing it to the public OK then?

What, so that the public can get their pitchforks out and lynch the people on the list, before finding out that the list was somehow wrong and the person they hanged from the tree is actually innocent?

OK, so forget the last bit. What about illegally hacking the site and giving details to police? It is still illegally hacking, is that wrong?

Any contact with a child pornography site is problematic.

There is no point in hacking such a site. Having possession of the data, no matter the reason, is a crime.

Avoid at all costs.

I was just trying to think of an extreme example.

Rikkitic

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#1372968 24-Aug-2015 12:02

DizzyD:

If somebody says something is immorally wrong, you don't need to try and prove them wrong. Accept their view and differences and move on. Your examples of immorality are just different to mine. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression. People fought in wars for this stuff.

I am not disputing your right to hold an opinion and express it. I am saying your opinion is wrong.

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DizzyD

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#1372969 24-Aug-2015 12:04

Rikkitic:
DizzyD:

If somebody says something is immorally wrong, you don't need to try and prove them wrong. Accept their view and differences and move on. Your examples of immorality are just different to mine. Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression. People fought in wars for this stuff.

I am not disputing your right to hold an opinion and express it. I am saying your opinion is wrong.

Great you entitled to that view.

And your opinion is wrong. ;-)

JWR

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#1373032 24-Aug-2015 12:51

freitasm: And hence why I still can't understand the discussion focus on what people were doing there instead of how incompetent this company was at securing their data.

Yes. There are two things that worry me about Ashley Maddison's behaviour in all of this.

- Competency in securing data.

- Charging to 'forget'/remove members details. That seems to me a big problem, especially for a site storing credit card details.

Rikkitic

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#1373049 24-Aug-2015 13:13

freitasm: And hence why I still can't understand the discussion focus on what people were doing there instead of how incompetent this company was at securing their data.

It is always like this. When Wikileaks posted the collateral damage video the shock and horror was not about Americans blowing away innocent civilians and having a laugh over it, but about Wikileaks possessing and posting the video.

To return to the real subject, companies are constantly being exposed for their incompetent security. How about Target in the USA, or Sony? I don't think there is anything exceptional in this case, in spite of the nature of the site. What I absolutely cannot understand is the repeated willingness of people, in spite of all evidence to the contrary. to place their trust in these or any other sites at all. For exactly this reason I don't even use Internet banking. Sure, I can probably get my money back if security is compromised, but I don't want to have to go to all the hassle. I don't let anyone store anything that matters to me because I have no good way of knowing who is sloppy and who is not, and recent history does not fill me with confidence. Fortunately my lifestyle is such that the inconvenience caused by this is minimal.

The upside to my very conservative approach to data sharing is that I do not get spammed, ever, I do not see any advertising, targeted or otherwise, and I have never been hacked or infested or otherwise bothered.

I do not think the victims of this hack got what they deserved because they were engaging in behaviour that some other people seem to think they are entitled to be upset by, in spite of not even knowing the people who are engaging in it. I think the victims got what they deserved because they were so stupid as to trust any web site to treat their private information as if it matters.

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Geektastic

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#1373112 24-Aug-2015 14:38

JWR:
freitasm: And hence why I still can't understand the discussion focus on what people were doing there instead of how incompetent this company was at securing their data.

Yes. There are two things that worry me about Ashley Maddison's behaviour in all of this.

- Competency in securing data.

- Charging to 'forget'/remove members details. That seems to me a big problem, especially for a site storing credit card details.

Given that people have hacked even the FBI before, I wonder if it is actually possible to secure data unless it is secured in such a way that the servers it is stored on are not physically connected to the internet.

Fred99

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#1373546 25-Aug-2015 09:43

Geektastic:
JWR:
freitasm: And hence why I still can't understand the discussion focus on what people were doing there instead of how incompetent this company was at securing their data.

Yes. There are two things that worry me about Ashley Maddison's behaviour in all of this.

- Competency in securing data.

- Charging to 'forget'/remove members details. That seems to me a big problem, especially for a site storing credit card details.

Given that people have hacked even the FBI before, I wonder if it is actually possible to secure data unless it is secured in such a way that the servers it is stored on are not physically connected to the internet.

Possibly - if the server's buried in an impenetrable bunker, and you can also eliminate the "human factor" by not allowing any humans to access the data.

SWMBO's work servers were hacked last week (no data breach - but a close call). A very big network too. Why is another question - despite there being a lot of personal information records (many tens of thousands), the hackers would or should have known that there would have been nothing that they could use for immediate gain (CC records etc). But perhaps it's so easy to hack sites and so hard to be caught that some give it a try - either for the hell of it, or to make a few dollars by selling verifiable personal information lists to the other kind of scum - those who'll use it.

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surfisup1000

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#1373567 25-Aug-2015 10:00

There have been many people (i'm sure i saw a couple of GZ posters in this ) that are joyful that this data has been released by hackers.

Personally I'm disgusted and this is another example that hacking is treated lightly if people approve of the data that is being released. (politicial email hacks too).

When news of this first broke, I believed many people will lose their lives , and others subject to blackmail.

The first suicides are now being reported, people have been blackmailed, and there is little doubt that many homosexuals and cheaters in muslim countries will be put to death or jailed.

So, to the gleeful, are you still happy about this hack?

Batman

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#1373571 25-Aug-2015 10:06

i'm not sure about people being happy or joyous, but they are not sad.

Rikkitic

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#1373572 25-Aug-2015 10:07

According to latest reports, two people have now died as a result of the hack. http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/282318/ashley-madison-hack-'sparks-suicides' Did they also 'deserve' what they got because they were being immoral? The report also states that Canadian police are now taking this very seriously and the hackers may eventually well be caught. I have no issue with hackers as such. I think hackers on occasion have done heroic things. Maybe the hackers in this case were just pure criminals out to make a buck. If not, the takeaway is that people need to carefully think about actions and consequences and not do something just because they can.

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Fred99

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#1373580 25-Aug-2015 10:13

The "moral argument" side of this is still bugging me. Yesterday evening while driving home, RNZ news "Panel Says" Ella Henry and Nicky Pellegrino, one or the other or both saying they (AM members being "outed") thoroughly deserve what they're going to get, there was nobody there challenging or questioning that view.
"Endorsing" the hackers action in this way is admitting that if you were in the situation of having that information, then you would have been "at moral fault" by not releasing it.

While some have cheered the news that many of those identified are now becoming victims of email extortion and blackmail, on Monday morning the ongoing drama took an even darker turn. On the heels of a reported suicide by a Texas law official outed as an Ashley Madison customer, Toronto police held a press conference to announce two local suicides of users of the site.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/fortney-tale-of-adultery-site-hacking-takes-even-darker-twist

Batman

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#1373583 25-Aug-2015 10:15

I just don't think that people were joyous or sad. Emotions were not involved. Excitement at an interesting news piece you could call it. Indifference maybe. Some were angry that illegal activities were carried out. Some mentioned they thought people deserved the consequences, but people judge people on very simple things like deserving to crash, when youtube videos are posted of poor driving for example.

I just don't think people on a whole were celebrating with joy and champagne. I have much more important things to do in life.

surfisup1000

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#1373584 25-Aug-2015 10:15

joker97: i'm not sure about people being happy or joyous, but they are not sad.

OK, you challenged me :)

I started to read through all the posts, 2nd page was this one...

I hope some people get nailed by this. 100% deserved, zero sympathy.

Seems pretty gleeful to me. Although, I wonder if this poster had really thought through all of the consequences.

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#1373585 25-Aug-2015 10:17

surfisup1000:
joker97: i'm not sure about people being happy or joyous, but they are not sad.

OK, you challenged me :)

I started to read through all the posts, 2nd page was this one...

I hope some people get nailed by this. 100% deserved, zero sympathy.

Seems pretty gleeful to me.

People write these things on just about any thread where there was a mishap. High roaming data charges come to mind. Doesn't mean they are joyous/happy.

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#1373588 25-Aug-2015 10:21

Fred99: The "moral argument" side of this is still bugging me. Yesterday evening while driving home, RNZ news "Panel Says" Ella Henry and Nicky Pellegrino, one or the other or both saying they (AM members being "outed") thoroughly deserve what they're going to get, there was nobody there challenging or questioning that view.
"Endorsing" the hackers action in this way is admitting that if you were in the situation of having that information, then you would have been "at moral fault" by not releasing it.

While some have cheered the news that many of those identified are now becoming victims of email extortion and blackmail, on Monday morning the ongoing drama took an even darker turn. On the heels of a reported suicide by a Texas law official outed as an Ashley Madison customer, Toronto police held a press conference to announce two local suicides of users of the site.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/fortney-tale-of-adultery-site-hacking-takes-even-darker-twist

I think moral arguments are the hardest to do in a society that share different values. Some people never download stuff. Some people would. Some people think if they have the CD/DVD they can download. Some people would download if they lost their original. Some people download windows ISO to reinstall their system with a licence but no installation medium (eg restore partition lost). Which one of those is a thief? All, because the person who never downloads probably have listened to a downloaded something at someone's house/car.

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