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Forums › Off topic › ISP level pornography ban in NZ
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surfisup1000
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  #865191 24-Jul-2013 16:13
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Inphinity:
surfisup1000:And, they can just go over to their friends house and you have no idea if they supervise internet access. So, an ISP block sounds more encompassing to me.  



... you know they'd be using their friends' internet connection at their friends house, so your ISP filtering your connection will have no impact?


But, the others would also have filtering with their isp , which is the beauty of this solution. 

MikeB4
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  #865192 24-Jul-2013 16:14
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Filters at a ISP level are .....

1. incredibly difficult and labour intensive so there would be a cost to the consumer if this was implemented
2. a dangerous precedent.

Parents can, should and obliged to manage this in their homes and on their equipment and network.




Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Mark
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  #865193 24-Jul-2013 16:14
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Klipspringer:

You just seem to not like the idea of the ISP taking over this service? Why must I buy separate software? Why must I pay a third party? Surely its easier for this to be handled and maintained by the ISP.

Thats my point.

"opting in" to get porn is just as reasonable as being able to "opt out"



For you it would be easier yes.  For the ISPs it would be an F'ing nightmare of effort to put in and maintain so it's not economical or practical for them to do.

Simpler for you to implement at home with just the parental controls on your computers and educating your kids and yourself not to google goatse.

kiwitrc
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  #865196 24-Jul-2013 16:20
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SaltyNZ:
DonGould: 
I also wonder about a 'how much porn have you consumed today' type of service.



A guy I used to work with said that in a previous job of his, the web wasn't filtered by his employer. Instead, the proxy logs were summarised and published on the intranet along with the usernames of those who had accessed each site. You could feel free to check out XXX-whatever-your-fetish-is sites if you wanted to. As long as you were also OK with everybody else in the company knowing exactly what you'd been up to.

They didn't have much of a problem with people slacking off at work.


Christ that would be a badge of honour where I work.

josephhinvest
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  #865203 24-Jul-2013 16:44
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My few cents worth, but I think it's all been well covered.

• Porn is not illegal. Who would define what is objectionable? Better also ban boobs from the telly!
• Clever kids will always, always, find a way. VPNs. Sneaker net of porn on flash drives.
• False positives. This always, always happens.
• We parents can supervise our kids Internet use. Talk to your kids about sex.
• When the list of opt-ins is hacked and cross matched with politicians etc. Hilarity ensues.

Cheers,
Joseph

Edit
• The cost would be large. Who would pay for it? Taxpayers, I presume.

NonprayingMantis
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  #865209 24-Jul-2013 16:54
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surfisup1000:
Inphinity:
surfisup1000:And, they can just go over to their friends house and you have no idea if they supervise internet access. So, an ISP block sounds more encompassing to me.  



... you know they'd be using their friends' internet connection at their friends house, so your ISP filtering your connection will have no impact?


But, the others would also have filtering with their isp , which is the beauty of this solution. 


Not at my house.  

Despite having 2 daughters there is no way I would be taking the porn filter with my isp... and furthermore I expect most fathers would be the same. I love porn.

Oh sure we might get a bit of pressure from the wife to put the filter on, but as soon as she goes out or goes to bed he will be getting that filter removed so he can watch some boobies.

there is a reason the internet is 30% porn - it's because so many people like watching porn!!!

ubergeeknz
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  #865210 24-Jul-2013 16:55
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NonprayingMantis: there is a reason the internet is 30% porn - it's because so many people like watching porn!!!


Only 30%?

keewee01
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  #865211 24-Jul-2013 16:56
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Talkiet:
Klipspringer: [snip]

You just seem to not like the idea of the ISP taking over this service? Why must I buy separate software? Why must I pay a third party? Surely its easier for this to be handled and maintained my the ISP.

Thats my point.

"opting in" to get porn is just as reasonable as being able to "opt out"



Short answer, no. It's NOT easier for your ISP to do it. You're just going to have to believe me on this one.

There ARE ISPs around that have chosen to make this part of their service offering, based largely on offering to the education market.

And no, in principle, "opting in" to get category A of legal content is no different in principle to opting in to get categories B, C and D of also legal content. If category A should be opt-in, why not B, C and D?

Cheers - N





To expand on Talkiet's response - an ISP's internal setup is extremely more complicated than your home internet connection - especially if they have to start blocking content for some customers and not others. So it is
far, far, far easier (and cheaper) for you to implement it yourself than to require your ISP to implement it. 

Then there is the whole can of worms that is censorship.

The nanny state is bad thing as it makes people complacent and stupid as they no longer need to look after themselves.

MikeB4
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  #865219 24-Jul-2013 17:00
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josephhinvest: My few cents worth, but I think it's all been well covered.

• Porn is not illegal. Who would define what is objectionable? Better also ban boobs from the telly!
• Clever kids will always, always, find a way. VPNs. Sneaker net of porn on flash drives.
• False positives. This always, always happens.
• We parents can supervise our kids Internet use. Talk to your kids about sex.
• When the list of opt-ins is hacked and cross matched with politicians etc. Hilarity ensues.

Cheers,
Joseph

Edit
• The cost would be large. Who would pay for it? Taxpayers, I presume.


Some porn is illegal




Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

NonprayingMantis
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  #865224 24-Jul-2013 17:05
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ubergeeknz:
NonprayingMantis: there is a reason the internet is 30% porn - it's because so many people like watching porn!!!


Only 30%?


it's actually a lot more than 30% I believe.
The 30% I think represents just the http browser based stuff (youporn etc)  it doesn't capture the tons and tons of bit-torrent porn or direct file transfer stuff (like rapidshare etc)

josephhinvest
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  #865235 24-Jul-2013 17:20
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KiwiNZ:
josephhinvest: My few cents worth, but I think it's all been well covered.

• Porn is not illegal. Who would define what is objectionable? Better also ban boobs from the telly!
• Clever kids will always, always, find a way. VPNs. Sneaker net of porn on flash drives.
• False positives. This always, always happens.
• We parents can supervise our kids Internet use. Talk to your kids about sex.
• When the list of opt-ins is hacked and cross matched with politicians etc. Hilarity ensues.

Cheers,
Joseph

Edit
• The cost would be large. Who would pay for it? Taxpayers, I presume.


Some porn is illegal


Yes, illegal porn is already illegal, and should remain so. This hypothetical filter would block legal porn.

NonprayingMantis
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  #865239 24-Jul-2013 17:24
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I realise this a 'slippery slope' argument, but it isn't hard to imagine that once ISPs are forced to implement automatic filtering mechanisms 'for the sake of the children', then RIANZ etc will quickly turn around and request that the government require ISPs also block Bittorrent, pirate bay etc etc etc, oh, and also block unblock-us.com etc etc

vexxxboy
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  #865245 24-Jul-2013 17:31
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NonprayingMantis: I realise this a 'slippery slope' argument, but it isn't hard to imagine that once ISPs are forced to implement automatic filtering mechanisms 'for the sake of the children', then RIANZ etc will quickly turn around and request that the government require ISPs also block Bittorrent, pirate bay etc etc etc, oh, and also block unblock-us.com etc etc


they already do in the uk , doesn't work. Now they are trying to block the proxy's




Common sense is not as common as you think.

CYaBro
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  #865248 24-Jul-2013 17:35
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Can we also make Telecom/Vodafone etc block all spam calls to our phones? :)




Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

PaulBags
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  #865249 24-Jul-2013 17:35
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@Klipspringer: have you ever asked your current ISP about pornography filtering, and what was their response? If they don't offer what you want, or even refuse to point you in the right direction to help you set it up for yourself, then why are you still with them?

I'm actually exposed to 15-20somethings half naked or in skin tight clothing more often on the bus to and from work than I am on the net; and a few times a week I actually go looking for porn. And what about postie plus/the warehouse/farmers etc, do you filter your junk mail from children's view?

I'd honestly suggest that if your this paranoid about pornographic content/sexuality/women that you move to Dubai. It's probably actually more sexually violent there, but at least it's also repressive.

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