FTTH/Quad-play in New Zealand

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#356029 25-Jul-2010 11:58

mgcarley, you wrote "there isn't much stopping me running my own aerial fiber".
You could not do that in my town or in a lot of towns in NZ that have a rule of no aerial cabling. All power and phone cabling is underground, there are no poles. Aerial cabling is sky pollution and the councils got rid of the sky spaghetti along time ago.

kyhwana2

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#356034 25-Jul-2010 12:07

mgcarley:
I have been to see Telstra, Orcon, WxC and Velocity and I have the contact details for those in the know at FX, Opto, Callplus and so on. I have organized a pilot for central Hamilton .

What kind of pilot were you trying to do for hamilton? There are a few apartment complexes in central hamilton, although you'd have to find out from the owners how they're wired or if they want to wire them up, etc.

mgcarley

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#356092 25-Jul-2010 15:46

hellonearthisman: mgcarley, you wrote "there isn't much stopping me running my own aerial fiber".
You could not do that in my town or in a lot of towns in NZ that have a rule of no aerial cabling. All power and phone cabling is underground, there are no poles. Aerial cabling is sky pollution and the councils got rid of the sky spaghetti along time ago.

I'm giving an example of a particular locality which currently does not have such a rule and which would currently be impractical to run cables underground unless there are some conduits already available.

I've not personally done a detailed survey of said area so I can't say for sure one way or the other for the area in question, however if we can avoid taking things that I'm saying out of context it would be much appreciated.

Towns/neighbourhoods with rules against "sky pollution" would undoubtedly have conduits available. These may be open-access (owned by the council) or they may be private (right-of-way is granted to Telecom only, for example).

mgcarley

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#356095 25-Jul-2010 15:51

kyhwana2:
What kind of pilot were you trying to do for hamilton? There are a few apartment complexes in central hamilton, although you'd have to find out from the owners how they're wired or if they want to wire them up, etc.

Some complexes are wired up already. Some are all-fiber, others are fiber to the building and then copper (cat5) to each apartment. According to Velocity, it only costs about $1000 to put fiber in to the building if there is fiber running past it (on the same side of the street) and then cabling to each apartment is cost of cabling + ends, as most of the apartments have cable conduits available for use.

sbiddle

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#356096 25-Jul-2010 15:53

mgcarley:
Towns/neighbourhoods with rules against "sky pollution" would undoubtedly have conduits available. These may be open-access (owned by the council) or they may be private (right-of-way is granted to Telecom only, for example).

This is not always the case. Porirua for example have exceptionally strick rules on overhead cabling which stopped TCL's HFC rollout. There are also strict criteria for cellsites.

The vast majority of the city is overhead - they will simply not let any new cable run overhead.

mgcarley

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#356101 25-Jul-2010 16:03

sbiddle:
This is not always the case. Porirua for example have exceptionally strick rules on overhead cabling which stopped TCL's HFC rollout. There are also strict criteria for cellsites.

The vast majority of the city is overhead - they will simply not let any new cable run overhead.

Why would that stop TCL's rollout? Everywhere else in the country they just dig up the road...

There are some pretty neat machines which can dig a trench only about 30-50cm wide on the road/footpath in order to create a trench in which to lay cables (and allow for expansion when needed) with minimal disruption.

Unless, of course, the powers that be in Porirua are against any form of progress?

cyril7

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#356106 25-Jul-2010 16:14

Why would that stop TCL's rollout? Everywhere else in the country they just dig up the road...

This is exactly where I see you proposals (which I would love to see come about, but) are flawed, I suspect you have got a screwed view on the costs, TCL stopped because the $ did not stack, I hope you do the sums well before you throw your investors $ down the waste pipe.

Do you not think TCL also are well aware of clever and cost effective trenching systems?

Cheers
Cyril

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cyril7

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#356108 25-Jul-2010 16:26

Mathew, you might want to look at this document by Murry Milner (ex Telecom cheif technology officer) that reviews the costs of doing FTTP/FTTH.

http://www.med.govt.nz/upload/63958/FTTP-Cost-Study-Public-Version.pdf

Cyril

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#356115 25-Jul-2010 17:01

mgcarley: There are some pretty neat machines which can dig a trench only about 30-50cm wide on the road/footpath in order to create a trench in which to lay cables (and allow for expansion when needed) with minimal disruption.

Agreed but no council has yet approved either shallow trenching or microtrenching due to the national roading standard. The EoI paper put out by MeD which closed on Friday is the first step to get that loosened up. They are proposing to get some trials underway to test the technology and convince the councils. One thing that these tests won't prove is how the liability for damage is handled - but no doubt that will be worked out over time.

muppet

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#356141 25-Jul-2010 18:30

A first I thought this was some pretty epic trolling, but then I thought this guy really believes he can do this! The problem, of course, is that it's an individual with these aspirations with no company behind him.
I think he's got a case of whatever it is that Aleksey Vayner has.

Here's the website of his Indian company. Where you can get a "tentative" list of prices (hosted by Google Docs.) If the service ever launches, you might be able to pay using PayPal. Some other online payment providers appear to have been ruled out sadly, not based on any commercial discussions with them though, but based on how their websites look. I believe this is the method that most Telco's currently employ to choose business partners.

Apparently problems with the CPE's are causing the delays to the product launch. It's going to be awesome when they do launch though, they peer with Google Even though I can't find any information about what AS Number they'd be using to peer with. Or IP Address information.

Anyway, I'll go back to my substandard PC.

More fun here.

I still haven't decided if this is epic trolling or an attempt to coax people to invest.

Audiophiles are such twits! They buy such pointless stuff: Gold plated cables, $2000 power cords. Idiots.

OOOHHHH HYPERFIBRE!

mgcarley

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#356179 25-Jul-2010 20:37

cyril7:
Why would that stop TCL's rollout? Everywhere else in the country they just dig up the road...

This is exactly where I see you proposals (which I would love to see come about, but) are flawed, I suspect you have got a screwed view on the costs, TCL stopped because the $ did not stack, I hope you do the sums well before you throw your investors $ down the waste pipe.

Do you not think TCL also are well aware of clever and cost effective trenching systems?

Cheers
Cyril

I obviously see things a bit differently to TCL. I look toward under-served areas as targets for rollout rather than areas with dense competition.

The thing is that all (for the NZ side of things) is in the planning stages and we're taking advice and pricing information from those that are or who have been actually building networks and I imagine at some stage this will even include Telecom/Chorus too. The figures that are being tossed around are genuine ballpark figures cited by the people I've been talking to.

And I imagine that TCL are aware of clever systems - we could even consider using sewerage pipes to drag cables through.

mgcarley

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#356180 25-Jul-2010 20:41

cyril7: Mathew, you might want to look at this document by Murry Milner (ex Telecom cheif technology officer) that reviews the costs of doing FTTP/FTTH.

http://www.med.govt.nz/upload/63958/FTTP-Cost-Study-Public-Version.pdf

Cyril

To be honest, I actually think the quotes in this documents are on the low side. If the CPPP circa $4k in Hamilton, and Auckland is way more difficult because of the type of earth in that region (and therefore more expensive), I hate to think where they are pulling averages of just $2500 from.

But again, these costs are only partially relevant to what I intend to be doing which is why I've citied costs which are significantly lower - that is, I don't need to build the network from scratch, I'm just building on the very end of existing networks.

mgcarley

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#356181 25-Jul-2010 20:42

wired:
mgcarley: There are some pretty neat machines which can dig a trench only about 30-50cm wide on the road/footpath in order to create a trench in which to lay cables (and allow for expansion when needed) with minimal disruption.

Agreed but no council has yet approved either shallow trenching or microtrenching due to the national roading standard. The EoI paper put out by MeD which closed on Friday is the first step to get that loosened up. They are proposing to get some trials underway to test the technology and convince the councils. One thing that these tests won't prove is how the liability for damage is handled - but no doubt that will be worked out over time.

And the PM wants a photo op before EOY 2010.

sbiddle

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#356187 25-Jul-2010 20:51

mgcarley:
But again, these costs are only partially relevant to what I intend to be doing which is why I've citied costs which are significantly lower - that is, I don't need to build the network from scratch, I'm just building on the very end of existing networks.

Which is exactly what will be happening in NZ if the existing Telecom FTTN network is used as a stepping stone for FTTH.

Getting fibre to a node end cabinet is the easy part - this has been happening throughout the country for the last few years as part of the FTTN project.

Getting that fibre from the node to the house is the costly part.

mgcarley

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#356194 25-Jul-2010 21:06

muppet: A first I thought this was some pretty epic trolling, but then I thought this guy really believes he can do this! The problem, of course, is that it's an individual with these aspirations with no company behind him.

I think he's got a case of whatever it is that Aleksey Vayner has.

In India I have several companies and a number of private individuals behind me. I have the good fortune to have a wife who floats in affluent circles.

In New Zealand, this isn't the case however as I have mentioned, if I really want to do this, those that I have spoken to have so far been supportive - it's a matter of submitting a fully formed business plan and at least beginning to purchase some services from someone. We're still evaluating all of the options because we want to do what's best.

muppet:
Here's the website of his Indian company. Where you can get a "tentative" list of prices (hosted by Google Docs.) If the service ever launches, you might be able to pay using PayPal. Some other online payment providers appear to have been ruled out sadly, not based on any commercial discussions with them though, but based on how their websites look. I believe this is the method that most Telco's currently employ to choose business partners.

Actually, it's not hosted by Google Docs, it's cached so that one can view it in a browser rather than download it.

As for Paypal, a lot of customers have asked if this would be an option, so we said we would consider it. Likewise with the other payment providers - the website look wasn't necessarily a factor, but more on how well the service worked and other things like what sort of value the company could provide. I figured it would be better to choose a company that could handle a variety of methods to make the whole process easier. India isn't like New Zealand - it doesn't have a well developed net-banking system and few people have credit cards, so we have to take in to consideration when we're trying to ascertain how our customers can pay us. Cheques are still by-and-large the most popular method of payment.

muppet: Apparently problems with the CPE's are causing the delays to the product launch. It's going to be awesome when they do launch though, they peer with Google Even though I can't find any information about what AS Number they'd be using to peer with. Or IP Address information.

Anyway, I'll go back to my substandard PC.

More fun here.

Not problems with the CPEs, problems with getting them approved for use in India. The CPEs received rave-reviews in trials in BeNeLux, so I went up to check them out a few months back and found they were pretty good, and decided upon those.

We do have an AS Number and we're utilizing a /20 of HNS's IP addresses for the first few-thousand customers, which I think you'll find is standard procedure as per APNIC rules.

muppet: I still haven't decided if this is epic trolling or an attempt to coax people to invest.

What I've put forth here is merely an idea stating that this is what I want to do, and if I get a few people excited/interested/willing to offer some expertise or the names of people I can have a chat with, then that's awesome. Some people such as Cyril have notably been giving some constructive criticism and I appreciate that a lot.

Personally I think you and a few others are trolling or at least trying to invoke a response of some kind but I've had that my whole life and I can't be bothered. If you think that it's an impossible dream, I'm cool with that, but it's MY dream and for me it's easier just to ignore you and everyone else who thinks it can't be done so that I can do what I want to.

As for the investment side of things, I've already got startup capital for operations in NZ, and if the pilot is a success, only then would we seek anything more. If not, then I lose out on my investment and I continue onward to the next thing. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. But I would prefer that you don't contribute to the discussion if you can't contribute something of value.

Thanks.

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