Nissan LEAF - General

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#1899021 10-Nov-2017 17:39

MikeAqua:

Linuxluver:

Some people are committed to zero CO2 emissions more than others.

A truly committed person would stop breathing.

That would be a silly person...much like the comment itself. :-)

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Linuxluver

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#1899022 10-Nov-2017 17:43

happyfunball:

This is what drove us to buy a Leaf. Its true its good value and a fun car, but ultimately what got my butt off the couch was wanting to make a difference. There just aren't that many excuses left to drive an ICE for most people (I mean 95% of people). If we need to go to Auckland from Wellington without stopping we can always rent a cheap ICE car but otherwise our 30kw Leaf is fine.

There comes a time when pointing your finger at others just doesn't work anymore. The world is getting worse because of people like me, not some evil company somewhere or the Trump show. Its just people like you and me making choices.

The EV is making the choice a no-brainer, more compelling by the day. Cheaper, faster, better. I predict 5 years from now only the very old and the very poor with have ICE engines. All the luxury ICE cars we see today will be 'a poor mans Tesla' (they already are in the U.S.)

As for how to make the change faster, its carrot and stick. The obvious way would be a petrol tax and ICE exclusion zones but its a bit early for that stick. We could improve the carrot, more EV lanes, free parking etc. I'd like to see dedicated EV parking spots, that would be cheap to implement (maybe revenue positive for councils with the fines) and visible too. Making ICE cars a 'lower class of vehicle' is the best way to proceed until we can use the stick.

Thanks for sharing that. Same for me.

As for the carrot and stick....yep....we can go a way down the carrot track before resorting to sticks. Very much agree.

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Linuxluver

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#1899023 10-Nov-2017 17:46

happyfunball:

But whatever its doing its not taking battery temperature at the last charge into account so its possible to fluctuate wildly especially on the 30kw models.

I'll agree. My SoH is bouncing around between 90% and 97%. It seems every time I go to Australia for a week and the car isn't driven it drops 2%. Then I come back and drive it and it starts to rise again. My SoH dropped from 97% to 90% in 2 weeks...and I wasn't even driving it. :-)

It's now back to 92%...and the AHr is steadily rising.

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gzt

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#1899108 11-Nov-2017 06:18

happyfunball: As for how to make the change faster, its carrot and stick. The obvious way would be a petrol tax and ICE exclusion zones but its a bit early for that stick. We could improve the carrot, more EV lanes, free parking etc. I'd like to see dedicated EV parking spots, that would be cheap to implement (maybe revenue positive for councils with the fines) and visible too. Making ICE cars a 'lower class of vehicle' is the best way to proceed until we can use the stick.

EV lanes are not a good problem to have imo. The best thing you can do for EV adoption is get people to test drive the Leaf. Eliminating gas station visits and lack of exhaust fumes in the garage are incentive enough.

gzt

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#1899110 11-Nov-2017 06:33

EV lanes and ICE exclusion zones are more or less special treatment for those who can afford to pay. Imo the air quality benefits will come from the replacement of diesel commercial vehicles with electric. Even aside from EV improved diesel standards for cof would go a long way - it will increase the cost of transport, eliminating some older vehicles and creating a larger market for engine replacement but the air quality benefit is worthwhile.

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#1899127 11-Nov-2017 08:52

At $10k for the basic model leaf (5 year old Gen1) I truely believe these are now an ‘affordable’ choice for any general buyer. 10 years ago the (then) 5 year old corolla 1.6GL I bought cost $12K, and that’s also a ‘basic range’ car... sure it’s not the ‘bottom range’ 25 year old student car I sold it for at $1,600... but by 15years old I’d assume my leaf will be right down there too.

Linuxluver

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#1900606 14-Nov-2017 12:29

gzt: EV lanes and ICE exclusion zones are more or less special treatment for those who can afford to pay. Imo the air quality benefits will come from the replacement of diesel commercial vehicles with electric. Even aside from EV improved diesel standards for cof would go a long way - it will increase the cost of transport, eliminating some older vehicles and creating a larger market for engine replacement but the air quality benefit is worthwhile.

With LEAFs at just under $10K, I'm not buying the 'afford to pay' meme being put about by fossil fuel lobbies. This LEAF is $8900 buy now. It's 7-bar (of 12) LEAF, but it can do 50-60km...which is double most people's daily driving needs.

Some EVs cost more up front and almost all are less cost after.......

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#1900812 14-Nov-2017 17:24

Linuxluver:

gzt: EV lanes and ICE exclusion zones are more or less special treatment for those who can afford to pay. Imo the air quality benefits will come from the replacement of diesel commercial vehicles with electric. Even aside from EV improved diesel standards for cof would go a long way - it will increase the cost of transport, eliminating some older vehicles and creating a larger market for engine replacement but the air quality benefit is worthwhile.

With LEAFs at just under $10K, I'm not buying the 'afford to pay' meme being put about by fossil fuel lobbies. This LEAF is $8900 buy now. It's 7-bar (of 12) LEAF, but it can do 50-60km...which is double most people's daily driving needs.

Some EVs cost more up front and almost all are less cost after.......

I'm very much in support of electric vehicles and everyone doing all they can for the environment, but buying an EV that only does 50-60km must certainly have very limited appeal. This is very much a second vehicle and for some people buying an EV with that range could pose a safety risk if the vehicle runs out of charge when it has to be used in an emergency.

Now that the vehicle has done 112,000 km, I think that paying $8,900 for an EV with such low range is very expensive when you compare it with what you can get for a petrol vehicle of similar age and mileage. If this vehicle had a range of at least 200km, then the price tag of $8,900 might be sensible for some buyers.

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#1900901 14-Nov-2017 19:25

Conversely, the mileage is basically irrelevant in an EV as it’s the battery that is the only real ‘wear and tear’ item... and for US$6000 you could get it entirely replaced and ‘good as new’ for a combined sum of $16,000. If the interior is in great condition that’s actually even a better price than an 10 bar Gen2 as the range would probably exceed that $20,000 car too!

Range anxiety is really just a 1 month training excercise, and my wife now happily arrives home with 4-7kms left at times without even batting an eyelid (as opposed to the first time she made it home with the ‘low range’ (15km) flashing warning practically in tears!

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#1900903 14-Nov-2017 19:37

@phantomnvd where have you got US$6000 from? I asked Nissan in Christchurch recently and they said NZ$16000 for a new 24kwh battery.

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#1900968 14-Nov-2017 20:42

paulchinnz: @phantomnvd where have you got US$6000 from? I asked Nissan in Christchurch recently and they said NZ$16000 for a new 24kwh battery.

all over?

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/10/04/nissan-leaf-replacement-battery-will-cost-5499/

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168

https://ecotricity.co.nz/electricvehicles/

EV batteries are expected to last about 8 – 10 years with the current technology, but are improving and becoming cheaper over time.
Second hand EV batteries can also be used for home energy storage. Replacement batteries for a Leaf in the US currently cost about NZD6,000

http://www.cashbackcars.co.nz/electric-information

Eventually the battery will need replacement. It can then be recycled or, reused, for example by homeowners who want to store electricity from solar panels or overnight off-peak power.

You may be able to buy a battery with more capacity than the car initially came with.
You may need to replace only individual dead cells, at a lower price than a full replacement.
A new Nissan Leaf battery costs little under $10,000 (2015); prices are quickly falling.

https://insideevs.com/breaking-nissan-prices-leaf-battery-replacement-5499-new-packs-heat-durable/

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#1900971 14-Nov-2017 20:53

Thanks @phantomnvd

Yes have seen most of those. Hence I was taken aback when quoted $16k by Nissan.

The challenge is to find someone who'll provide a battery in NZ for US$6k.

MarkH67

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#1901040 15-Nov-2017 02:12

PhantomNVD: and for US$6000 you could get it entirely replaced and ‘good as new’ for a combined sum of $16,000.

Unfortunately you maths is a bit off. US$6000 is almost NZ$9000 and when you add shipping and GST and Labour - $16,000 may be a bit pricey but I seriously doubt you would find anyone that could replace your battery with a new one for under NZ$12,000 which would make the combined sum of >$21k.

I bought a 2 year old car with 12 bars on the battery instead. By the time mine needs a new battery they would hopefully have dropped in price or I may trade up to a 2nd hand 2019 60kWh Leaf before that point.

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#1901066 15-Nov-2017 08:22

frednz:

I'm very much in support of electric vehicles and everyone doing all they can for the environment, but buying an EV that only does 50-60km must certainly have very limited appeal. This is very much a second vehicle and for some people buying an EV with that range could pose a safety risk if the vehicle runs out of charge when it has to be used in an emergency.

Using that logic, anyone without a car is at risk. :-)

Now that the vehicle has done 112,000 km, I think that paying $8,900 for an EV with such low range is very expensive when you compare it with what you can get for a petrol vehicle of similar age and mileage. If this vehicle had a range of at least 200km, then the price tag of $8,900 might be sensible for some buyers.

That's your view. No problem there.

But in absolute dollar terms, if this car meets the needs of someone...and remember in Auckland, at least, they are never more then 10km from a fast charger and rarely more than 1km from a 3-pin plug even in a rural area...then it's "affordable"....and you don't need to be wealthy.

That was all. I won't be buying it. The range isn't what I need......but it will meet someone's needs.

You can't really compare it to an ICE car on price alone as they emit CO2, CO and much else besides. They need petrol. Their service costs are likely to be higher. Well....you can try, but it's not really apples for apples.

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#1901097 15-Nov-2017 09:32

MarkH67:

Unfortunately you maths is a bit off. US$6000 is almost NZ$9000 and when you add shipping and GST and Labour - $16,000 may be a bit pricey but I seriously doubt you would find anyone that could replace your battery with a new one for under NZ$12,000 which would make the combined sum of >$21k.

I bought a 2 year old car with 12 bars on the battery instead. By the time mine needs a new battery they would hopefully have dropped in price or I may trade up to a 2nd hand 2019 60kWh Leaf before that point.

I agree. Quoting a USA Nissan price for a part is not at all comparable to NZ prices. Take anything from an air filter to a gear box and the price in the US is going to be 20-50% more expensive than here (maybe even 100% more in some cases). Buying a battery in the US and then shipping it to NZ would be ridiculously expensive. Wouldn't be surprised if it was $5k just to get it here. I think installation isn't too tricky, probably a days worth of labour for someone with a service manual. Or if you are mechanically minded, get a few mates to help. Plenty of youtube videos showing you how to do it.

As of yet I am pretty sure there is no example of a LEAF battery being replaced in NZ? Until this happens everyone can speculate all they want but all things point to the cost of a new battery installed and ready to go being in the $10-20k range. Just completely uneconomic at the moment.

As for the 7 bar LEAF on trademe. I reckon it is over priced. I think $7k is about the right price for it.

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